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DOCUMENTS DEPT. 



^HEARING 

SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF^CALIFORNIA 



<^ 



y 



oc 



4 1999 



SAN FRANCISCO 
PUBLIC LIBRARY 




STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 113 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 30, 1999 
9:36 A.M. 



378-R 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 113 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



WEDNESDAY, JUNE 30, 1999 
9:36 A.M. 



Reported by 



Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 



3 1223 03273 6556 



11 



APPEARANCES 

MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 

SENATOR JOHN LEWIS, Vice Chair 

SENATOR JOE BACA 

SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

MEMBER ABSENT 

SENATOR TERESA HUGHES 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

WADE TEASDALE, Consultant to SENATOR LEWIS 

FELICE TANENBAUM, Consultant to SENATOR HUGHES 

CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to SENATOR KNIGHT 

MANNY HERNANDEZ, Consultant to SENATOR BACA 

ALSO PRESENT 

WILLIAM ELKINS, Member 
State Personnel Board 

DENNIS ALEXANDER 

Professional Engineers in California Government 

ARTHUR E. JORDAN 

California Coalition of Minorities, Women, and Persons with 

Disabilities 

JOANNE C. KOZBERG, Member 

The Regents of the University of California 

SENATOR RICHARD POLANCO 

SENATOR ADAM SCHIFF 



4 49383 SFPL: ECONO JRS 
75 SFPL 06/06/03 6 



Ill 



STEVE ARDITTI, Director 
Governmental Relations 
University of California 

CAROL BAKER THARP, Executive Director 
Coro 

BILL LAMBERT 

United Teachers of Los Angeles 

PETER PURSLEY 

UC Student Association 

DAVID ROSENBERG, Member 

California State Lottery Commission 

CHRIS MICHELI 

California Image Associates 

DWIGHT HANSEN 

California Rehabilitation Association 



IV 

INDEX 

Page 
Proceedings 1 

Governor ' s Appointees : 

WILLIAM ELKINS, Member 

State Personnel Board 1 

Background and Experience 1 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Current Backlog of Unresolved Appeals 2 

Expected Reforms to Reduce Backlog 2 

Suggestion by Legislative Analyst to 

Eliminate SPB and Transfer Functions to 

DPA 3 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Board's Monitoring of State Hiring 3 

Need for State Workforce to Reflect 

California's Diversity 5 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Elimination of Civil Service Status for 

New Hires in Georgia 5 

Motion to Confirm 6 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Position on Allowing Health Benefits 

For Unmarried Partners 6 

Witnesses in Support: 

DENNIS ALEXANDER 

Professional Engineers in California Government 6 



ART JORDAN 

California Coalition of Minorities, Women, and 

Persons with Disabilities 7 

Committee Action 7 

JOANNE CORDAY KOZBERG, Member 

Regents of the University of California 7 

Introduction and Support by 

SENATOR RICHARD POLANCO 7 

Statements in Support by 

SENATOR ADAM SCHIFF 8 

Background and Experience 9 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Stanford-UC San Francisco Proposed 

Merger 12 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Percentage of Undergraduate Classes 

Taught by Professors vs. Teaching 

Assistants 15 

Minimum Teaching Requirement for 

Professors 16 

New 4 Percent Admissions Requirement 16 

Campuses in Under-represented Areas 18 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Definition of Top 4 Percent Vs. 

Performance on Graduation Test 

Requirement 18 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Admission of Top 4 Percent 20 

Under-representation of Minorities 

In UC System 21 



VI 



Outreach Enhancements 22 

Community College Transfers 23 

Difficulty for Minorities to 

Attain Tenure on UC Faculties 25 

Teacher Recruitment and Preparation 26 

Minorities in Medical Schools 26 

Need for Minorities to Be Reflected 

In Contracting Out 27 

Motion to Confirm 27 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Asian American Enrollees in UC 27 

Response by STEPHEN ARDITTI 28 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Admission of Top 4 Percent 28 

Various Tracks into UC System 29 

Witnesses in Support: 

CAROL BARKER THARP, Executive Director 

Coro, Southern California 29 

BILL LAMBERT 

United Teachers of Los Angeles 30 

Witness with Concerns: 

PETER PURSLEY 

UC Student Association 3 

Committee Action 31 

DAVID ROSENBERG, Member 

California Lottery Commission 32 

Background and Experience 32 



Vll 



Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Thoughts about Lottery 33 

Changing Ratio of Moneys Allotted Out 34 

Profit of Original Initiators of 

Lottery in California 36 

Breakdown of Administrative Budget 37 

Ability of Commission to Adjust 

Distribution of Revenues 39 

Request to Find Out How Much Initiators 

Received and Will Receive in Future 39 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Position on Raising Minimum Playing 

Age from 18 to 21 40 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Need for Constitutional Amendment to 

Change Age Requirement of Players 41 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Lawsuits against State 41 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Percentage of Lottery Monies that 

Went to Education in Past 42 

Contracting Procedures of Lottery 43 

Need for Greater Oversight 44 

Diversity in Employment at Lottery 45 

Witnesses in Support: 

CHRIS MICHELI 

California Image Associates 45 



Vlll 



DWIGHT HANSEN 

California Rehabilitation Association 46 

Motion to Confirm 46 

Committee Action 47 

Termination of Proceedings 47 

Certificate of Reporter 48 



Mr. Elkins. 



P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 
--00O00-- 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Governor's Appointees, 

Sir, how are you? 

MR. ELKINS: Well, thank you, sir. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You may tell us how wonderful 
you are. 

MR. ELKINS: Mr. Chairman, and Members, that 
would be quite inappropriate. 

Let me take just a few moments, if I may, and 
share with you, very briefly, my background and most current 
experience with government. 

I grew up in the Los Angeles area, in Los 
Angeles. Went to a high school called Jefferson High School. 
From there, to UCLA. And after a year at UCLA, into World War 
II, having been inducted. Served four-and-a-half years, two in 
Italy. Came back and went back to UCLA and got a Bachelor 
Degree. 

Entered the Los Angeles Probation Department. 
Went to law school at night, Southwestern Law School in the Los 
Angeles area, and remained in the Probation Department for some 
16 almost 17 years. 

From there into the Poverty Program for 
four-and-a-half years, where I administered a youth diversion 
program and was about ready to go make some money, and we got 
Tom Bradley elected Mayor in 1973. And I served on his staff as 
his Chief Deputy for the 20 years that he served as Mayor for 



the City of Los Angeles. 

I have worked as the program officer and counsel 
for several foundations in the Los Angeles area for the last six 
years . 

During the Bradley administration, it was my 
privilege to serve as his liaison to the League of Cities, 
United States Conference of Mayors. Had oversight for several 
of the more major departments for the City of Los Angeles, 
including the Personnel Department. 

And that, Mr. Chairman and Members, is a 
30-second resume of my life. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Do you have members of your 
family here present that you'd like to introduce? 

MR. ELKINS: I do not. My wife had planned to 
come, Mr. Chairman, and came down with something called strep 
throat and could not join me. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Good morning. 

How large is the current backlog of unresolved 
appeals? 

MR. ELKINS: I don't — it's my understanding 
that they are moving swiftly. A process has been set up, as you 
are probably aware, to expedite them. 

And I don't have the precise number, Senator, 
that there may be as we sit here. 

SENATOR LEWIS: What kind of reforms are you 
talking about implementing to try to speed up the processes and 
reduce the backlog? 



MR. ELKINS: Well, the Executive Officer of the 
State Personnel Board, along with his staff, I guess, a little 
more than a month ago brought to the State Personnel Board 
several suggestions on ways and means to speed up the process 
by requesting the administrative law judges to try and shorten 
their — the process, certainly shorten the appeals process, and 
to have the State Personnel Board move more expeditiously, 
certainly, to handle the agenda as it meets twice a month. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Four years ago, the Little Hoover 
Commission had recommended eliminating the State Personnel Board 
and transferring the functions to DPA. Do you think that idea 
has any merit? 

MR. ELKINS: Well, Senator, it's my very strong 
feeling that the State Personnel Board must maintain its 
independence. To do otherwise, I think, would destroy the 
integrity and the credibility of that Board and the 
constitutionally mandated authority that it has to do its work. 

I'm not totally familiar with the report that you 
reference, and I would be glad to check into it and get back to 
you, if you desire, with a strong opinion on that matter. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Baca, then Senator 
Knight . 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

Bill, one of the questions that I have, as you 
know, the oversight arm of the Department, the current law 
allows individual departments to hire applicants for state 
positions. This is known as decentralized hiring authority. 

Has the State Personnel Board been monitoring 



this process to your knowledge? 

MR. ELKINS: Yes, Senator. The State Personnel 
Board has indeed been monitoring that process. And the 
expectation, I believe, is that it will become even more 
aggressive in doing so. 

SENATOR BACA: How is it going to improve in the 
state agency in hiring? 

I'm glad that you're saying that it's going to 
improve, but do you have any ideas in terms of how it may be 
modified or changed? 

MR. ELKINS: I think a number of things can be 
done. It is my very strong opinion that the state, or 
government at any level — federal, state, or municipal — ought 
to have the process to reach out and to bring on board the best 
people that it can find. 

As all of us know, government is in competition 
with the private sector. And one of the things that can be 
done, in my view, would be to raise the salary levels for people 
in government at all levels to place government in a better 
position to attract and to compete more effectively with the 
private sector. 

I think that training programs, outreach and 
training, is a very effective tool that can be used to raise the 
level of effectiveness and efficiency of staff at all levels. 

I would hope that that's something the State 
Personnel Board, as I indicated, will be more aggressive in 
doing. 

SENATOR BACA: One final question, Bill. The 



information that I've gotten is, the work force isn't reflective 
of the diversity of the State of California right now. 

What do you believe can be done in the area of 
recruitment to improve the quality of diversity of the state 
work force if we're looking at presenting opportunities for 
individuals, not only to obtain jobs, but upward mobility in 
executive managerial positions as well? What do you think needs 
to be done? 

MR. ELKINS: I have a very strong feeling, 
Senator, that we ought to look at something called diversity. 
I think it's a great strength. That was one of the hallmarks of 
the Bradley administration. 

Outreach, training, job fairs, and more effective 
substantive relationships with unions and with departments, I 
think, will go a long ways in helping the state to address that 
issue and that very serious concern. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Elkins, some time ago, I gather that the 
State of Georgia eliminated the civil service status for all new 
hires there. 

Would you support anything like that? 

MR. ELKINS: Eliminating the merit system? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: The civil service system. 

MR. ELKINS: No, sir, I could not. 

SENATOR BACA: You're a military man. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: That's why I'm asking. I've 



seen it work, Joe, the civil service system. I know how the 
military works. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You like kinship one better? 
Hire all our kin. 

SENATOR BACA: Move the nomination. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I've got one more question. 

Mr. Elkins, there's been a lot of talk about 
domestic partners benefits and so forth. Would you support 
health benefits to nonmarried couples? 

MR. ELKINS: That is an issue, Senator, in all 
candor, that I have not resolved in my own mind. It would be my 
position, there's a lot of litigation, as you know, going on 
addressing that issue. 

My position would simply be to support whatever 
the law defines with respect to it. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: What litigation is going on 
there? 

MR. ELKINS: Well, there are a lot of actions 
being filed all around" the country on that issue. And the law 
is not definitive on it. 

And it would be my position to support whatever 
law that is defined and definitized in this state. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Moved by Senator Baca. 

Call witnesses in support. Just briefly come up, 
identify yourselves for the record. 

MR. ALEXANDER: Good morning. I'm Dennis 
Alexander from Professional Engineers in California Government, 



and we are in support of Mr. Elkins' confirmation. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

MR. JORDAN: Art Jordan, representing the 
California Coalition of Minorities, Women, and Persons with 
Disabilities. And we recommend his confirmation. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Now, if you would have been for 
abolishing the civil service commission or system, we could have 
had this room full of people, good democratic job seekers. 

Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB:' Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Four to zero. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. 

Next, Joanne Kozberg, Member of the Regents of 
the University of California. 

Senator Polanco and Senator Schiff. 

SENATOR POLANCO: Mr. Chairman and Members, we 
are here, both Senator Schiff and I, to present to the Rules 
Committee and ask the favorable support for this nomination. 

I had the opportunity to first work with Joanne 
when she was the Director of the California Arts Council. At 
that point in time, the department was experiencing tremendous 



8 

cutbacks. Through Ms. Kozberg's efforts, her ingenuity, to make 
a long story short, this department now is back on track. Still 
some way to go, but came forward with leadership, came forward 
with some vision. 

She later became the Secretary of the State and 
Consumer Services Agency. In that capacity, I've had the 
opportunity to work with her as Chair of the Subcommittee on 
State Administration. I have found her to be an individual of 
strong integrity, honesty, hard work, self-starter, and she 
exemplifies the best of what public service is about. 

She serves as the Southern California Director on 
the NAACP Legal Defense, NAACP Educational Fund. 

She is a person who brings cultural diversity and 
cross cultural respect to the public policy debate. And I'm 
here to lend my unequivocal support, and ask the Rules Committee 
to move in confirming her and moving her on her quest for regent 
to the UC system. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Senator Schiff. 

SENATOR SCHIFF: Mr. Chairman and Members, I 
really want to echo the sentiments expressed by Senator 
Polanco. 

Joanne's record in terms of her service, both for 
the state, its various boards and commissions, its departments, 
is extensive, as well as her charitable service. 

I got to know her as the Chair of the Joint 
Committee on the Arts at a time when she was no longer at the 
Arts Council, and would go to her frequently for advice on arts 



issues, for her help and counsel all the way. I always found 
her to be incredibly helpful, knowledgeable, and party was never 
an issue. 

This is a person that works in a bipartisan, 
indeed, a nonpartisan way. I think she brings a wealth of 
experience that would be invaluable to the Board of Regents. 
She is entirely the type of person committed to public service 
that we really want and need to serve in such an important 
position, and would strongly urge your support. 

SENATOR POLANCO: You're on your own. 
[Laughter. ] 

MS. KOZBERG: Thank you, Senators. 

When I was four years old, my family moved to 
California from Canada. My father brought his young family here 
to practice research cardiology and become a professor at the 
brand-new UCLA School of Medicine. 

Side by side with Dr. Franklin Murphy, UCLA'S 
long time and beloved Chancellor, my father played a major role 
in bringing UCLA its Molecular Biology Building, the Jules Stein 
Eye Institute, and the Marion Davies Children's Clinic. In 
recognition of his efforts, he received the UCLA Alumni Award 
for Community and University Service. 

There wasn't a day that I can remember when the 
University wasn't dinner table conversation in our house. When 
it was time for me to attend the University, there was no 
question. I would attend UC, in this case the Berkeley campus, 
where I graduated in 1966 with a degree in history. 

At Berkeley in my senior year, I was President of 



10 

California Club, which served as student advisors to UC 
President Clark Kerr. Monthly we'd meet with Kerr, Chancellor 
Hines, and on occasion, Governor Pat Brown to hear them describe 
their vision for the University and the newly approved Master 
Plan for Higher Education. 

Our imaginations were enlivened by Governor 
Brown's description of the need to support California's 
educational infrastructure, as well as its water and 
transportation infrastructure. 

I never lost sight of that vision. I attended 
Berkeley at the very beginning of the Free Speech Movement, 
living with polarized conflict ongoing. It was classmate 
against classmate, student against administrator, faculty 
conflicted on all sides; everyone's emotions ran high. No one 
seemed to be listening to the other side. 

That experience taught me some life-long lessons: 
to respect differences of opinion; that there isn't one right 
way to view things; that everyone's perspective must be valued; 
and that you have to work extremely hard to hear what the other 
side is saying. 

After graduation, I became a Coro Foundation 
Fellow, a nonpartisan public affairs training institute for 
leaders. My career in community service has been devoted to 
education, life-long learning, public policy, and the arts. I 
was honored to receive UC Berkeley's Rosalie Stern Award for 
Community Service. 

You have my professional credentials in front of 
you, so let me briefly talk about what I think I bring to the 



11 

Regents: an ability to work through complex organizational 
structures and produce results. With estimates of campus 
enrollment expected to grow to 210,000 by the year 2010, an 
increase of 60, 000 more than currently enrolled, we must 
proactively meet the projections in a cost effective way that 
maintains quality education. 

As a former Secretary of the State and Consumer 
Services Agency, I have first-hand experience overseeing capital 
improvement and land use issues for the state. This is 
especially critical given the deferred maintenance, seismic 
retrofit, and facilities planning that we face on all ten 
campuses . 

I am deeply committed to bringing new voices into 
the student body, on to the faculty and the work force. I 
believe our diverse cultures have made California the great 
state that it is, and that the University must reflect that 
because we learn from each other as well as from the 
curriculum. 

Further, the University will not fully serve the 
state unless we educate students of every race and 
socio-economic background. I believe in collaboration and 
shared governance. I hope that I am a builder of consensus. 

In my 11 months as a Regent, I've had the 
opportunity to visit and meet faculty, students, and 
administrators on seven of our ten campuses so that I can better 
understand each campus 1 issue first-hand. 

It is the University that brought me to 
California. It educated me. It gave me many of the values that 



12 

I hold dear, and I am extremely honored to be sitting before you 
today. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How familiar are you with the 
UC-Stanford Med. Center merger? 

MS. KOZBERG: Becoming more and more familiar 
with the issue. It's extremely serious. 

I was not on the Regents when the decision was 
made. It's extremely confusing for the newer Regents on the 
Board. 

I am deeply concerned because these are two great 
medical institutions that have been impacted by this merger and 
the entire health care of the San Francisco area. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How are the Regents dealing 
with this? As I understand, during the last full meeting there 
was a discussion and some information. Then a health, or some 
kind of subcommittee. 

MS. KOZBERG: I'm on that subcommittee. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, when are your hearings? 

MS. KOZBERG: We had meetings — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: When is whatever — 

MS. KOZBERG: — May meeting. There was public 
testimony taken at this past meeting. In July, we'll be 
devoting a full day to the meetings. I believe it's July 14th. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What my office will probably do 
is to get you some of the background as we see it, and other 
members of that subcommittee. 

When the merger was first and announced, my gut 
told me it wasn't going to work. I listened to people that were 



13 

smarter than me, but I guess their guts weren't as good as mine, 
and thought that it may be worth pursuing. We worked very hard 
to put the new entity under the Public Records Act and other 
things. 

Then, when the problem focused on the money 
problem, as you probably know, at the beginning it looked like 
Stanford was getting the better of the deal because Cal was 
bringing in more assets. Now the Stanford end is doing better. 
The Cal end is weaker. 

Our concern was that they were not going to lay 
off a lot of people. They went out and hired a thousand, 
basically not a lot of them caregivers. Then they started 
laying off people, a fair piece of them caregivers, some of them 
lower level employees that have been with the hospital for 
years. 

When we tried to get the information from Peter 
Van Etten and Isaac Stein, at first they wouldn't give us how 
much they were paying this consultant that was telling them what 
to do. I think they're paying him, it'll be a total of almost 
six million for the contract. 

They resisted it, so we said, fine, we'll cull 
the papers to sue you under the Open Records Act. Sure enough, 
they gave us the information. The only pass we gave on Open 
Records is what loosely could be called proprietary information, 
that the public shouldn't know what kind of deal they're giving 
this group because then the other group would use it. 

So, I'm very interested in that. I have no idea 
what the end solution is, and what the termination of it, of the 



14 

merger, would be. But it's something that, in my opinion, the 
present leadership of that hospital has not been forthcoming to 
us. I don't think they're forthcoming to the Regents. 

I think how the deal was brought together, in my 
judgment, was like at a conference. And I think Isaac and 
Peter, and maybe one other, were walking down, "Wouldn't it be a 
great deal if we created this big thing," and the next thing it 
happened. 

And now there's serious ramifications. So, this 
is really going to tax us. 

I just would encourage you very much to just ask 
all the tough questions. Don't get stone-walled on anything. 

I don't know what's best. I don't know if 
blowing the merger up, and we can do that in the Legislature, is 
best. I don't know if continuing — I don't what is best. 

But to have allowed them — and I don't know 
whether you have joint management — how is it set up? Is it 
like four Regents, four Stanford Trustees, and somebody else? 

MS. KOZBERG: There are three members of the 
Regents that serve on the board. Stanford has an equal number, 
and the independently selected members of the board. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Independently selected by the 
joint groups? 

MS. KOZBERG: Yes, as I understand it. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: They're independents who are 
selected. They aren't independently selected? 

MS. KOZBERG: I can't answer that, but I will 
have an answer for you. 



15 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I guess the point is that to 
me, it's the height of irresponsibility what they did by going 
out, and when everybody was concerned — not everybody, but a 
lot of our concerns, the concerns were: what's it going to do 
to health care access; and how many people will lose their jobs. 
And they went out and hired a thousand. Which then, now they're 
in the processes of firing cafeteria workers and laundry 
workers . 

So, it's something that the whole San Francisco 
delegation is watching carefully. If I even had an opinion or 
an answer, I would try to get you to agree with me, but I don't 
know. It is a tough one. 

And I think that these people, including Peter 
Van Etten, have to be held accountable for what they did, 
because what they did was stupid. And if this merger was a 
great idea, what they did could send it right down the tubes. 

Do you have your family here? 

MS. KOZBERG: I do. I have my husband, Roger. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Another appointee. Welcome. 

Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Good morning. 

MS. KOZBERG: Good morning. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I wanted to just tax your memory 
for a second. 

Thinking back to your undergraduate days at 
Berkeley, what percentage of your classes back then were taught 
by professors versus teaching assistants? 

MS. KOZBERG: In lower division, I probably had 



16 

less contact with professors than I did in upper division. But 
I know that the ratio at that point was 14-1 in the '60s. It's 
now almost -- it's 18-1. 

SENATOR LEWIS: My understanding is that now for 
undergraduate classes at Berkeley/ 60 percent of the classes are 
taught by TAs . 

Do you think that there should be any kind a 
minimum teaching requirement for professors? 

MS. KOZBERG: I believe that there are standards 
for the case load that you have as a teacher. I have seen in 
statistics, and obviously, this was a very big concern because 
in 1992, in the Budget Act, they asked that the UC monitor the 
amount of teaching time that the professors spent in the 
classroom. That has to be submitted to Legislature every year. 

It has gone up 12.1 percent since the time the 
Legislature first asked for it. 

SENATOR LEWIS: That's a step in the right 
direction. 

What is your thought about the new four percent 
admissions requirement? I think there's a concern that that 
might be punitive towards students that just happen to attend 
really excellent high schools. 

MS. KOZBERG: In looking at the statistics, and 
the University ran a number of statistics, factoring in all the 
questions, there was not displacement of existing students, so 
that there was nothing that was punitive. 

I am supportive of the four percent. I think 
UC's reach should be throughout the state. I think it creates 



17 

opportunity/ and that we are a public institution where there 
had been no opportunity before. 

I think it does address the issues of diversity. 
We have fabulous outreach programs. They are doing a very good 
job, but those outreach programs are in general proximity of the 
campuses or in satellite locations/ so that the whole state is 
not benefitting from those outreach efforts. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I haven't seen the study, but 
could you just take a second and explain to me how it's possible 
that if you have a four percent quota, basically, that if you 
have one or a excellent high school, where you have so many high 
performing students, but then you can only take the top four 
percent there, how is it humanly possible that there's not some 
displacement? 

MS. KOZBERG: What we are doing is expanding the 
pool. Right now we're taking 11.1 percent of those students 
that are eligible. We have the obligation under the Master Plan 
to take 12.5. So, we are expanding the pool. So that four 
percent is our way of meeting our obligation to expand. So that 
we are not displacing. 

Any student that comes from a fine institution, 
as you said, will have the opportunity to go to a UC school. 

That question was asked in a very strong way by a 
number of Regents. It was also asked by Governor Davis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I'm somewhat skeptical. 

MS. KOZBERG: That will be monitored. This 
program will be evaluated. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Lastly, what's your thought about 



18 

what the UC system should do in terms of the number of campuses 
in under-represented areas? 

MS. KOZBERG: Well, we will be opening UC Merced. 
There is a strong commitment there. I think that the Valley has 
an enormously diverse population, as well as a high unemployment 
rate. 

UC Merced is something, I think, is very — an 
important commitment. Actually, it was referenced in the Master 
Plan for Higher Education, that we open a Central Valley 
campus . 

I would want to look very carefully at the 
numbers as far as expansion because that bubble of population 
that gets us at 2010 is due to diminish after that point, so you 
have to be very careful about what you build so that it's cost 
effective. 

But you don't know what the demand for higher 
education will be as we continue to be a changing, 
knowledge-based society, so that you have more four-year college 
students entering than ever before throughout the nation. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Questions from other Members? 
Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you. 

Ms. Kozberg, when you talk about the top four 
percent being accepted, and if you remember, we're going to 
institute a high school graduation test requirement on all our 
students, is that four percent of the grade, of the GPA of the 
students, or four percent of the test results? 

MS. KOZBERG: It would be the GPA, and the 



19 

students would be notified at the end of their junior year. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: So, the tests would have no 
bearing on the — 

MS. KOZBERG Not as currently structured. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Do you think it should, or would 
there be any discussion on which way to go? 

MS. KOZBERG: Well, I think that by the time you 
make, application you're normally notified. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I'm talking later on, after 
we've established the graduation test requirements for students. 
We put that in, and so now students will have to pass the test 
before they graduate from high school. 

MS. KOZBERG: I would hope that any UC admitted 
student would graduate extremely well since they're in the upper 
four percent of their class. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Well, we're talking about that 
top four percent, and I'm asking, does that test, would that 
figure into establishing the top four percent? 

MS. KOZBERG: No. I think it's sequentially. 
Admission to a university would come before the test. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: The test comes in the 10th or 
11th grade, I think. 

MR. HERNANDEZ: It starts, but it's not complete. 

MS. KOZBERG: Well, I certainly think we're on 
new ground. I assumed that the test came at the end, and I'm 
sorry, I haven't tracked it as well as I should. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No, I know it doesn't come at 
the end. 



20 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: It comes, I think, all the way 
through, 10, 11, and 12. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: But there is a final. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, one of them is at the end. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Yes, well, not at the end of the 
12th grade. I don't think they take one in 12th grade. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I thought. 

Didn't you pay attention during the Special 
Session. 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Somebody was always talking, and 
I couldn't think. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: We're going to move you away 
from Mountjoy. 

[Laughter. ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you, President Pro Tern. 

First of all, Joanne, I plan on supporting your 
confirmation to start off with, but I want to ask a series of 
questions. 

I'll just piggy-back on what was just stated 
right now. And I think what you meant to say was that in 
reference to the top four percentile that'll be admitted, and 
one of the reasons why we're going to the Master Plan is that 
kids now then will have the accountability, and the test scores 
will be a lot better, so the opportunities for them to get in 
and to meet the requirements are going to be a lot better. 

Isn't that true, based on what the Governor wants 



21 

to implement now? 

MS. KOZBERG: Yes. 

SENATOR BACA: So therefore, that's how the 
compliance will be. Then the students then will be achieving at 
a higher level. Test requirements will also be there. So, it 
makes it a lot easier in reference to individuals getting into, 
and hopefully we can have diversity. 

I'm glad you answered that. 

MS. KOZBERG: Thank you, Senator. That's a much 
better answer. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you. 

SENATOR BACA: One of the questions that I have 
is, I'm very much concerned in a lot of areas. 

First of all, I want to thank you for sending me 
the article from the L.A. Times , and then following up on a good 
friend of mine, Juan Lotta, that I knew that worked at UCLA. I 
appreciate that. 

But one of the areas that I'm concerned with is 
the under-representation of especially minorities — Latinos and 
African-Americans, and others — attending the University of 
California. Latinos now represent about 30 percent of the state 
population. However, the latest report from the California 
Post-Secondary Education Commission shows that only 12 percent 
of the students are attending all the UC campuses. 

Why do you think this is happening? 

MS. KOZBERG: Well, I think we need to do a 
stronger job in out reaching at the fundamental K-12 level, so 
that we ensure that all young people have the basic scholastics 



22 

to compete to get into the University. 

SENATOR BACA: I agree with you. 

What kind of outreach then needs to be 
developed? I think I talked to you, Joanne, whether it be done 
with community colleges or whether it be done at the K-12, but 
outreach needs to be established. 

What are the elements that you think that we 
should do to enhance outreach, both community college, transfer 
community colleges to our universities; likewise, our outreach 
that needs to be done in our K-12? 

MS. KOZBERG: We need a multiple pronged 
approach. We need to start with the fundamentals in elementary 
school, followed by middle school, and at the high school level, 
as well as community colleges. They are an extraordinarily 
strong feeder for the UC system, and they have a great deal more 
diversity. 

So right now, I know that they're up 9 percent in 
applications this year. And we need to do a much better job of 
making it — providing information about the University; making 
it easier to access the University; ensuring that the students 
at all levels are competitive; that they are recruited. And 
then once on the campus, that the transition is a successful one 
so that they can be retained. 

SENATOR BACA: Do you know of any successful 
programs that are currently going on right now in outreach in 
our K-12? 

MS. KOZBERG: There are extraordinary programs 
going on now. I think one of the most successful ones are the 



23 

partnerships with the schools. And there are now 60 schools 
that are around the state that are in these partnerships, where 
you have basically a contract with the parents and the teachers 
and the counselors, which are very important in these schools. 
They're elementary, middle and the secondary schools. 

And then, that is matched with a commitment from 
the UC campus, from the students, from the administrators, from 
the faculty, and from the Chancellors. And we are seeing a lot 
of success. 

So, it's a very long term. You know, we've got 
to get in, and we've got to know that we won't see huge success 
immediately. And that's one of the reasons, I think, the four 
percent is an important approach, because it's more near term. 
So that we need a multiple approach to ensuring that we create 
access for all Calif ornians. 

SENATOR BACA: One of the other areas that I'm 
concerned with, being a former trustee member for a community 
college, is the transfer of students from the community colleges 
to our 10 campuses. I know that it becomes difficult. 

It's a lot easier to get in from a K-12 than it 
is from a community college. You have honors programs, you have 
other programs, but it becomes difficult if a student does not 
have the 4.0 average. 

What can be done in assuring that students have 
equal access from a community college or a state university? 

MS. KOZBERG: I think probably the most 
successful paradym I'm seeing now in the transferability — and 
again, this issue needs to be approached in a multiple pronged 



24 

way, too, because it's not just what they called articulation, 
which is ensuring that one course at the community college 
matches the course that would be given at the university level. 
But there are whole difficult issues of financial aid, housing, 
part-time versus full-time. A number of issues that need to be 
attacked so that the community college student is comfortable 
and finds a successful way to accomplish an ambitious four-year 
program. 

Probably the most successful community college 
program is now in Orange County. That's the Orange County 
Transfer Alliance. And they have — the goal was to ensure that 
we had six percent a year transferring. Their statistics, 
though they haven't got the statistics of those that have 
enrolled, but their applications are up 15 percent. And they 
have done a remarkable job. 

So, there are successful pilots throughout the 
state that we need to enlarge upon. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

I hope that you continue to look at that area. 
And I hope that you look at lower division courses that are also 
offered at our community colleges that do meet the transfer 
requirement, because I know that a lot of it is based on the 
professor who is teaching a particular subject, which means you 
either purchase their book, you have their class, even though 
they're both 1-A classes. 

So, I hope that we look at a type of curriculum 
that will allow the transfer of students from our community 
colleges based on lower division. I'd just like you to continue 






25 

to explore that, and look at that. 

Another question that I have is, as we look at 
diversity and tenure, it seems like it's very difficult for 
minorities and others to attain tenure at our Universities. 

I'd like you possibly to look at to allow parity 
in having the numbers that need to be increased, because I don't 
see us. And as I see African-Americans, Latinos, and others who 
complied with research, have done everything, but somehow, don't 
get tenure. And yet it's not reflective of the student 
population, and it's not reflective of California's diversity 
in our faculty. 

MS. KOZBERG: There was a very interesting report 
that was issued. It was a faculty report headed up by 
Chancellor Pister who, coincidentally, is heading up the 
University's outreach effort. He recommended a widening of the 
areas for which you receive credit for tenure as you are looked 
at for your merit increase. I think that that's a report that 
should be looked at again. 

So, as I understand it now, you're normally given 
40 percent credit for your time in classroom, 40 percent for 
research, and then public service is about 20 percent. 

I think that we should probably look at more 
tenuring being done on the basis of applied research, where 
you're looking at a particular societal problem. And I think 
that that might help. 

But I think that the faculty should pull out this 
report again. 

SENATOR BACA: Again, I'd like to hopefully see 



26 

some improvements in that area, and allow fairness to allow 
individuals to obtain the tenure, and then to allow the 
diversity to reflect our communities. 

Another area that I'm very much concerned is, as 
we see the lack of teachers and the need for teachers in 
California, it's estimated that 275 teachers over the next ten 
years. Currently, we have about a 31,000 shortage. 

And it seems like our universities are not doing 
the job, not only in terms of recruitment, but also in 
preparing. 

What do you believe is the problem, and what 
changes need to be done? 

MS. KOZBERG: First of all, I think we need to 
recognize teaching as a very important profession. I think that 
that's a key element. 

UC has recommitted itself to teacher education. 
And we are running a number of teaching academies this summer, 
but also will be working heavily with the student population to 
encourage them to go into that profession. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

Another question, referring to the medical 
schools. Studies have indicated that there are quite a few 
minorities that are amongst the top percentile, but somehow are 
not getting into the medical schools, especially in the San 
Diego area and others, where African-Americans and Latinos and 
others qualified and were amongst the top, but yet were not 
accepted. 

Hopefully, you'll look at that to assure that 



27 

there's a fair processes and that there's an equal number. I 
hope you look at that. 

MS. KOZBERG: I will. 

SENATOR BACA: One final question that I have, 
and that pertains to contracting out. The Regents does a lot of 
contracting out. Hopefully, as we look at contracts going out, 
I'd like to see the reflection of Latinos, African-Americans, 
and other minorities be reflected in contracting out as well, 
because there's billions and billions of dollars that are done 
through the University, yet in proportion of those contracts, 
I'd like to see an improvement in that area. Hopefully, that 
you'll have an oversight that you can look at and reflect back 
at the type of contracts that are going out. 

MS. KOZBERG: Thank you. I have not had the 
opportunity to look at that, but I will take the opportunity. 
Thank you. 

SENATOR BACA: With that, I move her 
confirmation. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: You agree with the concept that 
we have under representation of certain minority groups in the 
UC system? 

MS. KOZBERG: Yes. 

SENATOR LEWIS: What is the percentage of Asian 
American enrollees in the UC system? 

MS. KOZBERG: I'm not quite sure that I have that 
statistic. Steve Arditti is here and probably could answer 
that. 



28 

MR. ARDITTI: I believe it's about a third across 
the University, varying from campuses. More so, for example, at 
Irvine in your area, Senator. 

SENATOR LEWIS: About a third system-wide. 
Roughly, do you know what the population, the percentage of 
Asian population of California is? 

MR. ARDITTI: Much less than that. Asian 
American young people achieve UC eligibility at the rate of over 
30 percent of each high school graduating class, even though the 
average for the state as a whole is about 12.5 percent. 

SENATOR LEWIS: So, in your view, do you think 
Asian Americans are an over-represented minority group? 

MS. KOZBERG: I'm not calling anyone over. 

I think that what we need to do is strive for 
meritocracy and diversity. I think you can do both. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Briefly, the top four percent, 
that's the top four percent of anybody who is top four percent 
of their own school? 

MS. KOZBERG: That's correct. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, conceivably, if you do 
that, somebody who is either just equally as qualified or maybe 
a bit better could be frozen out by somebody? Because, if you 
take all the top four percent, there might not be any more room 
then, so they have to figure out how to deal with that, I guess, 
as the process moves forward? 

MS. KOZBERG: That's why we're going to take a 
lot of monitoring of this situation. But there are a number of 
tracks that go into the UC system. And this would be one of the 



29 

tracks into the system. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What are the other tracks 
besides high school? We just heard the community college one 
isn't too good. 

MS. KOZBERG: The community college is improving, 
but there's a lot of room for growth there. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Is that because of snobbery or 
what? 

MS. KOZBERG: In looking at this issue, and I've 
been grappling with it, I think a lot of it is because the 
independent — the colleges are run by local governance. Each 
one has its own governance. So, coming together with the 
faculty and what they call the articulation, and agreeing that 
one course at a community college is the same as a course at UC 
becomes an issue. 

I also think it really is the fact that the 
community colleges are carrying out so many tasks. They're 
doing our vocational education, as well as college preparatory 
work. So that, you know, and they don't have the amount of 
counsellors in there. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Witnesses in support, please. 

MS. THARP: Senator Burton, Members of the 
Committee, I'm Carol Baker Tharp from Los Angeles. I'm the 
Executive Director of Coro, Southern California, but I'm 
speaking for myself today. 

In respect for your time, I'll submit my remarks 
in writing. 



30 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you very much. 

MS. THARP: Bud I would like to say as a voter 
who thinks that public education is the backbone of a free 
society, I can't think of anyone I would rather have helping to 
make policy for my state's university system than Joanne Corday 
Kozberg . 

MR. LAMBERT: Bill Lambert, United Teachers of 
Los Angeles. I have a written few remarks I'd like you to read. 

[Laughter. ] 

MR. LAMBERT: As a graduate of the University of 
California, it's been my pleasure to know Joanne in many 
capacities, especially in the education field. It is so nice 
every once in a while see such an outstanding person being 
recognized for such an important job, and the beneficiaries are 
all the students in the State of California. 

I strongly recommend her approval. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Witnesses in opposition? 

MR. PURSLEY: Chairman Burton, Members of the 
Committee, Peter Pursley with the UC Student Association. 

Our concern is that the processes for approving 
an appointment is apparently not being followed. 

The State Constitution requires the Governor 
appoint an advisory committee which has a student 
representative. Our organization appoints that student 
representative. The committee has not been convened. 

I was referring to Article IX, Section 9. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Excuse me. 



31 

The meeting took place last July when she was 
nominated by Senator Wilson. 

MR. PURSLEY: Then, for some reason, we were over 
looked in the composition of that committee. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You'd have to bring that up 
with Governor Wilson. 

MR. PURSLEY: Okay. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: In other words, Ms. Kozberg's 
nomination went through the processes. She was nominated by 
Governor Wilson a year ago. And the process did happen then. 

And Governor Davis, because of her 
qualifications, you know, did not withdraw her, as he did some 
of the other Regents. So, she did go through that process. 

Why your group was or was not in it — 

MR. PURSLEY: We'll look into that. I'll 
withdraw my remarks. 

Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Moved by senator Baca. Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Four to zero. 



32 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. 

Mr. Rosenberg. 

MR. ROSENBERG: Chairman Burton, Vice Chairman 
Lewis, Senators Baca and Knight, thank you for the in 
opportunity to address you. I hope to make some very brief 
remarks, and then answer your questions. I'll divide my remarks 
into two segments. 

First, I'd like to tell you who I am, then I'd 
like to tell you of my impressions of the California state 
Lottery. 

Who am I? Well, I am 52 years of age. I've been 
married for 31 years. In fact, today is my wedding 
anniversary. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Congratulations. 

MR. ROSENBERG: I have two adult children and 
one grandchild. 

I actually came over on the boat. I'm the son of 
Holocaust survivors and came over to Ellis Island. 

I have two degrees here in California: a 
Bachelor of Science Degree from Cal Poly in journalism, and a 
law degree from the University of California at Davis, which I 
received in 1974. 

I've been a lawyer for 25 years. I have a small 
home-town law practice in Davis. I have actually dedicated my 
adult life to public service. I'm a veteran of the United 
States Army, having served as an officer in the Adjutant 
General's Corps. 

I have served as President of the Legal Center 



33 

for the Elderly and Disabled. I was a member and, in fact. 
Chair of the California Law Revision Commission, which I saw 
here earlier on. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Can you give us some thoughts 
about the Lottery, because we have your bio. Thanks. 

MR. ROSENBERG: My impression of the Lottery. 

I have found — I've been there for three months, 
having been appointed by the Governor, and I found that everyone 
has and opinion of the Lottery. It is the — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Nobody can do anything about 
it, just like the weather. 

MR. ROSENBERG: Hopefully, the Commission has 
some jurisdiction. 

But it is the will of the people. The folks in 
California enacted the law in '74 — excuse me, '84 — and every 
poll I've seen since then indicates people think the Lottery is 
what they want. So, there it is. 

It is unique in state government as I have 
found. It is a substantially large business. It's 
two-and-a-half billion dollars a year in sales. 

I think the concept of a Commission is 
appropriate, because it provides that level of citizen oversight 
that is important. 

I think that the Lottery affords one a public 
responsibility. I think the Lottery has a responsibility, for 
example, to undertake some efforts, some leadership, on the 
issue of problem gambling and pathological gambling. I intend 
to involve myself in that actively. 



34 

I reviewed the National Gambling Impact Study 
that was recently issued by the federal government/ and I 
frankly agree with a number of things that were indicated, 
including the issue of problem gambling, and I will address that 
while on the Commission. 

For the vast majority of people in California/ 
however, it's a game. It's a dream, and it's supposed to be 
fun. 

My goals are the following. I hope to operate 
the Lottery with integrity, with honesty, and with fairness. I 
want to make sure that we funnel as much of the revenue as we 
can to education. To date, something like $10.7 billion has 
been provided to education. It's a bit invisible in the sense 
that it is distributed based on ADA to the school districts, the 
University of California, the State Colleges and others. And it 
comprises about two percent of their budgets. Yet, it's 
important because it is discretionary money. 

I want to utilize the best practices from around 
the county. The California Lottery is not unique. There are 37 
other states that do operate lotteries. We should be looking at 
them, and frankly, other countries to see what they do well. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You can't change the ratio; 
right? 

MR. ROSENBERG: Which ratio? The money to 
education? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Yes. 

MR. ROSENBERG: Yes. There are two ways that the 
ratio can be changed. The minimum ratio, as you know, is 



35 

established by law. We're required to provide at least 50 
percent of the revenue back in prizes. And we're required to 
provide — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: That's gross revenue? 

MR. ROSENBERG: Yes. 

At least 50 percent goes to prizes. At least 34 
percent goes to education. And no more than 16 percent goes to 
what's called administration. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, the best you'd be able to 
do would be to reduce administration by a point and send it over 
to ed., or ten points, or whatever? 

MR. ROSENBERG: There's two answers to that 
question. The first answer is yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: And the other is no. 

MR. ROSENBERG: The second one is — no, no. 

Under the current law, the only way to really 
make adjustments is to reduce the amount of administration. In 
fact, that's been done. As I looked at the numbers, the 
administrative expenses had been reduced to 13.5 percent, and 
the actual money to education is 36 percent. 

So, the other way to do so it is, frankly, to 
change the law. If you want to talk about that later in your 
questions, I'd certainly be prepared to do that. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Put it to a vote of the 
people? 

MR. ROSENBERG: Ultimately, yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: And have them reduce the prize 
level. 



36 

MR. ROSENBERG: No. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Where else would you get the 
money? Is there a fourth place? 

MR. ROSENBERG: I've looked at what other states 
are doing. And they return a substantially higher amount to 
their beneficiary than California does. Their sales are 
substantially higher than California. 

California number 32 in terms of sales per 
capita. We're just behind Idaho. 

The way they do it is to increase prizes. By 
increasing prizes, the revenue goes up substantially. When the 
revenue goes up, the pie is larger, and so the slice that goes 
to education can be larger. 

But that's not something we needs to deal with 
today, but it's something we ought to be looking at. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: To quote our dear friend, Ken 
Maddy, the Lottery is probably the worst gamble in the whole 
State of California percentage-wise. 

The people that put it on, the people that did 
the deal whenever the hell it was, '82, I think, or somewhere 
around there. What is their take? 

MR. ROSENBERG: Their take is going down. The 
contract is about to expire in about four years. Pursuant to 
that contract — you're talking about, I think, G-Tech, actually 
the Lottery has a huge number of contracts with various — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Somebody spent the money to put 
this on the ballot and pass it, and they did it to make money. 
How much money did they make out of it? 



37 

MR. ROSENBERG: I couldn't tell you, sir. I have 
not researched that point. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: There's a dollar that's taken 
in. 

MR. ROSENBERG: Correct. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Somebody's getting a piece of 
that off the top. 

I'm not necessarily against it. I'm just 
wondering what they make. We don't know what they make? 

MR. ROSENBERG: I can tell you exactly where that 
dollar goes right now. I can't answer what happened in '84. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Well, right now, then. 

MR. ROSENBERG: Right now, for every dollar that 
comes in to the Lottery, gross dollars, and it's about 
two-and-a-half billion of them, 52 percent goes back to the 
players in prizes; 36 percent goes to education, distributed 
based on ADA; and the remaining 13.5 percent is used in the 
category called administration. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How is that cut up? 

MR. ROSENBERG: That's what I want to address 
now. 

Administration is cut up as follows. About just 
under 7 percent of that, that 13.5 percent figure, 7 percent 
goes back to the retailers, the people that sell the tickets; 4 
percent goes to the actual operating expenses of the Lottery, 
paying the salaries of the people that run the Lottery. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: That work for the Lottery. 

MR. ROSENBERG: Of the remaining, I think that 



1 

2 
3 

4 
5 
6 

7 
8 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 



38 

leaves something like 3.5 percent. That's what's included in 
gaming costs. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I'm missing something. 

There was 13 percent roughly — 

MR. ROSENBERG: I'm taking 7 percent out of 
that. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: All right, so 7 is out, so you 
got 6; 4 is somewhere, and then you got 2 — 

MR. ROSENBERG: It's actually more like 3 point 
something that goes — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: And that goes to G-Tech or 
somebody? 

MR. ROSENBERG: The contractors. That's the cost 
of running the games. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: They are the people that came 
to us about the Lottery. 

I'm not against it. I'm just trying to 
understand it. 

Okay, and there's no way, because that was also, 
I would assume, built in. 

The 13 percent is built into the Constitution. 
And we're just saying 13 percent. 

That 13 percent, is that cut up by the 
Constitution, or cut up by statute, or can that be changed? 

MR. ROSENBERG: Yes, it is not cut up by the 
Constitution. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, you can reduce the 75 
million to Company A? 



39 

MR. ROSENBERG: The only thing the Constitution 
requires, the Lottery Act, is that no more than 16 percent be 
spent for administration. So, that is within the discretion of 
the Commission; correct. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, the Commission could 
basically reduce what whoever' s brought us the Lottery is 
making, if they so desire? 

MR. ROSENBERG: Without breaching current 
contracts, yes, but in future contracts, absolutely. We have 
discretion. We could make other adjustments. For example, 
right now — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I'm talking about the people 
that brought the Lottery to us. John Lewis and I got together 
and say, "I've got a hell of an idea. We do this. We front it 
for education. We sell the machinery, and we take our rent." 

If they're getting 75 million roughly now, 
probably in the earlier years they were probably getting — 

SENATOR LEWIS: Are they still the same 
contractor? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I don't know. I would assume 
they had to put something in there. I mean, they didn't come in 
here to give two cents to the school. 

I mean, what I would love is for you at some 
point to go back, and somebody can do it, find out how much 
money it is these people have gotten, are getting, and can it, 
in point of fact, be reduced. 

I would bet that their contract ran to the year 
2000-and-whatever, and you probably can't touch it. In the 



40 

future, I don't know whether or not you have to go back to them 
or someone else. 

It's more of a matter of idle curiosity for me. 
I always wondered what their return on the investment was. 

MR. ROSENBERG: Number one, I would be happy to 
do that. 

Number two, any future contracts will be 
competitively bid. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: All right. 

Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: First of all, does Rush Limbaugh 
have a position on your appointment? 

MR. ROSENBERG: I haven't asked him. I haven't 
talked to him recently. Rush Limbaugh and I had a television 
debate. He was the liberal, if I remember correctly. I took a 
rather conservative line. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Very good. 

The only question I have is that there was a 
study done recently, an impact study, by the National Gambling 
Commission. They recommended that the minimum age for playing 
the Lottery be raised from 18 to 21. 

What's your thought on that? 

MR. ROSENBERG: It's an interesting question. 
That is their recommendation, and I'm still thinking through 
what the implications are. 

I recently asked for some statistics, and as best 
as we can determine, the number of players of the Lottery 
between the ages of 18, 19, and 20, that is, the ones that would 



41 

be impacted by such a change, is relatively small. It's less 
than 10 percent, and probably closer to 6 or 7 percent. 

It would require a change in the Lottery Act, 
which would require a vote of the people, because any time you 
effect the beneficiary, education, you have to take it to the 
vote of the people. By reducing the number of players, you'd be 
affecting education. So, ultimately, the people have to decide 
that question. 

My guess is, they would vote against that. They 
have tended to vote against changes like that in the Act. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, that could be done either 
by the Commission or by the Legislature by statute, or nobody? 
It's got to be by Constitutional amendment? 

MR. ROSENBERG: My belief is, it would have to 
get the vote of the people. 

The Commission certainly could not change it, and 
I do not believe the Legislature could change it. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Probably if we ever wanted to 
do so some modest reform, that could be the hook. 

But I still don't think you could ever do 
anything to reduce the pay out. 

Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: You've been known to sue the 
state. I'm just wondering, now that you're on this side, are 
you going to sue the state any more? 

MR. ROSENBERG: I only sue the state when the 
state's wrong. I will never sue the Lottery. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You could have an ongoing 



42 

attorney-client relationship with him. 

Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

David, you've indicated that 36 percent of the 
moneys now go towards education, and 52 goes back to the 
winners . 

Previously, before legislation by a Member that 
was carried a couple of years back, what was the percentage that 
was actually going to education at that point? Because, it 
wasn't until legislation was changed that allowed more money 
going to education. Do you have a number? 

MR. ROSENBERG: My recollection, Senator, looking 
at the numbers, indicated that it was always hovering around 34 
percent. I believe there was one time when it was just below 34 
percent, which was not really permissible. 

But recently, it's been up to 36 percent total. 
In fact, it's more like 38 percent of sales. 

The reason the number is a little different is 
because there are other ways that money goes to education other 
than through sales of tickets. For example — and this has 
always amazed me — when Lottery prizes are unclaimed, they go 
directly to education. 

SENATOR BACA: So, the numbers are quite high 
that are now going, so education has benefitted since there has 
been a change in that legislation? 

MR. ROSENBERG: Yes, although I think it's 
probably reached the maximum at 36 percent. There's not much 
more room to play, given the parameters of the Act. Unless the 



43 



Act were changed, it looks like it's going to be about 36 
percent. 

SENATOR BACA: Do you know what Member had that 



legislation? 



MR. ROSENBERG: I do not, Senator. 

Oh, let me check my notes. Oh, yes, Senator 



Baca. 



SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

Let me ask you another question. Let me ask you 
question in reference to contracting out. 

There seems to be some controversy in the past. 
There's been fights over which company is selected to print the 
tickets or install Lottery equipment. This is a multi-million 
dollar contract. 

The State Lottery is not governed by the same 
laws that govern the purchase of other state agencies. And the 
Legislative Analyst suggests that the State Legislature amend 
the Lottery Act to provide more of an oversight of the 
Legislature and the Governor through the Department of Finance. 

Do you believe that the Lottery's contracting 
procedures are fair to all vendors? 

MR. ROSENBERG: I won't say that in the past 
they've been fair to all vendors, because I haven't been there. 

I will say that that in the future, they will be 
scrupulously fair. I've attended three meetings of the Lottery 
Commission. And my intent is to make sure — in fact, I've also 
assumed the duty of the Commission liaison on issues of 
contracting and procurement. 



44 

I intend to make sure the rules are understood; 
that they're fair; that virtually everything is competitively 
bid; and that we have an even playing field. 

One of the difficulties we have at the Lottery is 
the problem that lotteries have around the country, and that is, 
there are very few competitors in the field in some areas. It's 
almost like, you can buy your cars General Motors, Ford, and 
Chrysler, except in some cases there are really only two 
competitors in some areas. So, we have to be aware of that. 

SENATOR BACA: Should the Legislature change the 
State Lottery Act to provide the Legislature and the Governor 
with a greater oversight role? 

MR. ROSENBERG: In my opinion, I don't see a need 
for that. 

The Lottery Act is established the way it is 
established by the vote of the people, creating an independent 
Lottery Commission with oversight. 

If you find that there is a problem in that 
oversight, and you intend to change the Act, I think you should 
do that. It will have to go to a vote of the people, I 
believe . 

I've only been there for three months. I can't 
say that you should change the Act. 

I will tell you this, that I will ensure that we 
provide every single report and every single piece of 
information that the Governor and the Legislature would like to 
receive as long as I'm on the Commission. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 



45 

Finally, David, I hope that you'll look into 
this, and it's a question I've probably asked almost everyone as 
we look at the diversity of the State of California. 

Hopefully, that you could look at members that 
are hired do reflect the diversity of the California, that you 
can look at what's going on. 

Sometimes, when we look at trying to reach parity 
based on the population, it seems like we have not reached 
parity in terms of the diversity. 

I hope that you continue to monitor and look at 
that, and prepare to allow individuals, not only for upward 
mobility into executive managerial position, but opportunities 
for employment as well that are reflective of the State of 
California. 

MR. ROSENBERG: I will. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Anyone in the audience wishing to 
testify at this point in time in favor? 

MR. MICHELI: Mr. Chairman and Members, Chris 
Micheli with Carpenter, Snodgrass and Associates on behalf of 
our client, California Image Associates, in support of the 
confirmation. 

I've actually known Supervisor Rosenberg since 
about '87, when he was the Mayor of Davis and I was a student at 
UC Davis, active in local affairs. 

Recently, in the last few months, we have had the 
privilege of working with Mr. Rosenberg on a Lottery Commission 
matter, and I think that we're very pleased by, number one, his 



46 

openness and accessibility, despite his multiple hats that he 
wears as an attorney and a Supervisor for the County of Yolo. 
And also the fact that he has really rolled up his sleeves and 
delved into a lot of meaty issues that the Lottery is facing. 

We've seen him in action in two of the three 
meetings that he's been at, and again, have been pleased so far 
with his work, and so we urge his confirmation. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. 

Next. 

MR. HANSEN: Mr. Chairman, Members, Dwight 
Hansen, representing the California Rehabilitation Association. 
We are 127 community-based private and nonprofits, providing 
services to people with disabilities. 

I want to make sure that you understand that CRA 
has no position on the Lottery, one way or the other. 

However, we believe to be worthy of a 
gubernatorial appointment, you must be a talented person of high 
integrity. 

We've had a long-standing relationship with David 
Rosenberg, and it is my organization's privilege to endorse his 
nomination and to urge your support. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

Anyone in the audience wishing to testify in 



opposition. 



SENATOR BACA: Move the nomination. 
SENATOR LEWIS: We have a motion on the 



nomination 



47 

Mr. Rosenberg, there's only three Committee 
Members here. Two of them are Republicans. Do you feel lucky? 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR LEWIS: Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. 

[Thereafter, CHAIRMAN BURTON 
returned to Committee and voted 
Aye, making the final vote 4-0 
for confirmation.] 

SENATOR LEWIS: Congratulations. 

MR. ROSENBERG: Thank you. 

[Thereupon this portion of the 

Senate Rules Committee hearing was 

terminated at approximately 10:53 A.M.] 
— ooOoo — 



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CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 

I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 

, 1999. 



fp day ofC_ 




"Z 




/ Shorthand Reporter 



378-R 

Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.50 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 

Senate Publications 

1020 N Street, Room B-53 

Sacramento, CA 95814 

(916)327-2155 

Make checks payable to SENATE RULES COMMITTEE. 
Please include Stock Number 378-R when ordering. 



Lboo 
mo- M* 



HEARING 



DOCUMENTS DEPT. 
OCT - h 1999 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE sanfrancisco 

*%> PUBLIC LIBRARY 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



<^ 




STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 113 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

WEDNESDAY, JULY 7, 1999 
9:35 A.M. 



379-R 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 113 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



WEDNESDAY, JULY 7, 1999 
9:35 A.M. 



Reported by 



Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 



11 

APPEARANCES 
MEMBERS PRESENT 
SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 
SENATOR JOE BACA 
SENATOR TERESA HUGHES 
SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

MEMBERS ABSENT 
SENATOR JOHN LEWIS, Vice Chair 

STAFF PRESENT 
GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 
PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 
WADE TEASDALE, Consultant to SENATOR LEWIS 
FELICE TANENBAUM, Consultant to SENATOR HUGHES 
CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to SENATOR KNIGHT 
MANNY HERNANDEZ, Consultant to SENATOR BACA 

ALSO PRESENT 

JOSEPHINE DE LUC A, Member 

California Regional Water Quality Control Board 

San Francisco Region 

JACKSON R. GUALCO 

California Council for Environmental and Economic Balance 

JOAN PATTON 

San Francisco Estuary Project 

FRANCINE DIAMOND, Member 

California Regional Water Quality Control Board 

Los Angeles Region 



Ill 



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JOHN K. SMITH, Member 
Board of Directors 
Hastings College of the Law 

SENATOR DON PERATA 



IV 

INDEX 

Page 
Proceedings 1 

Governor ' s Appointees : 

JOSEPHINE DE LUCA, Member 

California Regional Water Quality Control Board 

San Francisco Region 1 

Background and Experience 1 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Interrelationship with BCDC 4 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Plans to Accommodate California's 

Projected Population Growth in Future 6 

Leaking Tanks 7 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Number of Wells in San Francisco Bay 

Area Affected by MTBE 8 

Leaking Underground Storage Tanks 8 

Polluted Runoff 9 

Witnesses in Support: 

JACKSON GUALCO 

California Council for Environmental and 

Economic Balance 10 

JOAN PATTON, Environmental Consultant 

San Francisco Estuary Project 11 

Motion to Confirm 11 

Committee Action 11 



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II 
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19 

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25 
26 



FRANCINE DIAMOND, Member 

California Regional Water Quality Control Board 

Los Angeles Region 12 

Background and Experience 12 

Motion to Confirm 16 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 



Assurance of Fairness to Developers, 
Property Owners , Farmers , and 
8 Industrial Water Users 17 



9 Lawrence Livermore Lab. Study 

On Environmental Impacts from Leaking 
Underground Petroleum Tanks 17 



Committee Action 18 



JOHN K. SMITH, Member 

Board of Directors 

Hastings College of the Law 19 



Background and Experience 19 



16 Statements in Support by 

SENATOR DON PERATA 19 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Possibility of Increasing Student 

Fees in Future 20 



Recruitment of Diverse Pool of 

Students 21 



Gauge of Success among Hastings 

Graduates 22 



23 

24 Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 



Outreach Programs or Suggestions to 

Increase Minority Enrollment 23 



yj Possible Reasons for So Many 

Student Applications to Hastings 24 



28 



VI 



Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Current Fees at Hastings 24 

Van Ness Location and Purpresture 25 

Insensitivity to Local Neighborhood 

And Community in Past 2 5 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Voucher System and GI Bill 2 6 

Mini Bar Exam 27 

Motion to Confirm 28 

Committee Action 28 

Termination of Proceedings 2 8 

Certificate of Reporter 29 



P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 
--00O00 — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Governor's appointees, 
Josephine De Luca, Member of the Regional Water Quality Control 
Board/ San Francisco. 

Welcome. 

MS. DE LUCA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: It's been a long time coming. 

MS. DE LUCA: Indeed. 

Ladies and gentlemen, I thank you for the 
opportunity of coming before you this morning. As you know, I 
am seeking confirmation following the appointment by Governor 
Davis to the Regional Water Quality Control Board. I've had the 
privilege of serving in the capacity as a Board Member under 
Governor Wilson for a full term, and I am truly honored to have 
had that distinction conferred by the Governor of the opposite 
party who has significant environmental leanings. 

I serve as Chair. I wish to be returned because 
I believe that the San Francisco Bay and its tributaries 
constitute the jewel in the crown of the California water 
system. On the Bay depend the health of the population, the 
health of our economy, the health of our environment. And I am 
keenly attuned to the public health concerns, since I hold the 
public seat on that Board. 

The priorities of Board are clear: enforcement 
our number one priority, permitting, and monitoring. And all 
these actions relate and interrelate in a very complicated 
scheme to create the containment and control of toxic discharges 



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into our water ways. 

It's important to note that in the '80s, we were 
dealing with basically the control of suspended solids, water 
treatment plant problems that we could manage relatively easily. 
Comparatively today, we have a challenging situation that is 
evolving as we speak with toxics, carcinogens, and in fact, in 
some cases, chemicals that have never been seen or analyzed on 
the face of this planet before as a result of the confluence of 
the marriage of chemicals that are being used in the new 
industries that have developed around the Bay in the last 25 
years. It's a delicate balancing act, maintaining the 
environment, enhancing it where ever possible, but at the very 
least, holding the line and allowing the economic engines that 
move the Bay Area and, in fact, are leading the world in terms 
of the development of new industries to continue to survive and 
to thrive. 

We are served by a staff of 100 very highly 
qualified engineers and scientists who devise the programs and 
the policies that lead us in the direction of protecting the 
environment, and preserving the business climate as well. 

Let me speak first of enforcement. We permit 
about 80 major industries, and in the last 25 years, have given 
over two-and-a-half billion dollars to the effort of cleanup in 
the water ways. We aggressively enforce point source pollution, 
and that is done through the processes of having our staff 
directed very strongly to bring in important and significant 
recommendations with significant fines attached. We don't 
flinch from the prospect of levying enforcement fines where 



they're indicated. 

One of the more palliative aspects of the program 
that we employ as an innovation is to permit polluters to assist 
us in developing mitigation projects, education projects, that 
are turned back into the community for the benefit of the 
community, so that we can enjoy programs like Kids and Creeks. 
We can enjoy education projects through the Scouts and 
environmental groups that are attuned to the need to preserve 
and protect the environment. 

Policies and programs of the watershed are 
innovative and of paramount importance. The monitoring program 
is unique, in that dischargers themselves have already paid into 
it, an accrued fund of $3 million so that we are able to monitor 
the Bay, measure the toxins and the carcinogens that are being 
deposited on a regular basis, and then develop strategies in 
accordance with how the levels are increasing or decreasing. 

The nonsource pollution requires both regulation 
and education. The development of best management practices 
often boils down to common sense approaches to practical 
problems. We work in unison with agricultural industries — the 
dairymen, the cattlemen, farmers — and develop programs and 
procedures with their assistance for controlling and containing 
herbicides and pesticide runoff. 

We've been especially aggressive with the 
development and construction industry in developing controls for 
erosion problems that bring inordinate amounts of sediment into 
the storm drains in particular. 

We have to face the inevitable question of fill, 



1 which is probably the most hated word in the water vocabulary. 

2 The way we treat that is, that whenever a request for fill comes 
before of us, we require a very rigorous analysis of avoidance, 

4 minimization and mitigation. And we demand three acres of new 

5 wetlands created for every acre that is filled. 

6 CHAIRMAN BURTON: On that issue, how do you 
interrelate with BCDC? That's the Bay Conservation and 

8 Development, Save San Francisco Bay, for want of a better word. 

9 MS . DE LUCA: They bring their recommendations, 

10 and we take them under advisement, but the specific applicants 

11 have to come to us for approval. So, the approvals rest with 

12 us. 

13 CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, the approval of fill is 

14 with you, and not with BCDC? 

15 MS. DE LUCA: Correct. We're both legislative 

16 and adjudicatory. 

17 We've heard a great deal over the past year about 

18 the development of TMDLs, total maximum daily loads, and what 

19 that refers to. We're going to be hearing a great deal about it 

20 in the future. What it refers to is the development of an index 

21 or a matrix, if you will, that lists the most toxic and 

22 carcinogenic of all these pollutants, and will give us a range 

23 with which to determine the how the water bodies are impaired, 

24 what is impairing them, and what strategies have to be employed 

25 to contain those discharges. 

26 It's a very sophisticated, high level 

27 technological effort, and we have the fire power to meet the 

28 challenge. We're working on a multi-media, multi-strategy basis 



with the EPA, Cal and federal, to assist us because it's very 
complex and very challenging. 

We continue a long term management strategy for 
dredging and sediment cleanup with reference to the ports, and 
work in concert, again, with the Army Corps of Engineers and 
other state agencies in directing materials toward the creation 
of wetlands. 

With respect to the groundwater, we have two 
responsibilities. One is, in some respects, more direct. We 
bear responsibility with the counties in aggressively cleaning 
aquifers and addressing the issues of solvent leaching into the 
aquifers. In Santa Clara Valley alone, we have, since program's 
inception, cleaned 500,000 pounds of toxic pollutants from the 
aquifers . 

The groundwater issues also take us into the area 
of leaking fuel tanks. As you know, the tanks were double lined 
as of March of '99. I'm happy to report that of the 8,000 
existing, we have either directly or indirectly, through our 
subordinate agencies, closed 4,000 of the 8,000 leaking tanks, 
which I think is a significant accomplishment. 

Now we are faced with the supreme challenge of 
dealing MTBE, which more than a local problem. It's a state 
problem; it's a national problem. And we are working tirelessly 
with the EPA at the state level and at the national level to 
determine the strategies and the programs that are necessary. 
It's a highly toxic chemical, highly dispersive, very difficult 
to contain, and very hard to remove. 

So, our assignment is to get the job done, and I 



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believe we have the resources to do that. 

I've up touched very briefly on the programs, the 
policies, of the Regional Board, and I hope I've communicated to 
you my commitment to those programs and policies, and my 
enthusiasm for them. And I would hope to gain your approval for 
my confirmation so that I can continue with the implementation 
that I am able to achieve. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Questions, Members of the 
Committee? Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I have one comment here. It's from my analysis 
here . 

Is it true that you were chosen for this 
opportunity because of your ability to turn wine into water. 

[Laughter. ] 

MS. DE LUCA: Nothing could be farther from the 
truth, Senator. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Continuing, California's 
population is due to grow to about 49 million in the next 25 
years. That's going to require a lot of water. 

MS. DE LUCA: Indeed. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: What, if any, plans do you have 
to accommodate that increase in population? What 
recommendations would you put forth? 

MS. DE LUCA: Well, as you know, we're not Water 
Resources. We're Water Quality. So, we deal with maintaining 
the surface waters and ecological balances that are needed to 
maintain the eco-system. 



So, Water Resources would have to deal with this 
problem of generating additional water. Of course, we all know 
that everything is tied up in the CAL-FED negotiation, and how 
the diversions will be dispersed. 

It's, again, a very difficult balancing act to 
make the judgment of who gets more water, the agriculturalists, 
the cities, or the environment. I'm glad it's not a problem 
that, at the moment, I am required to solve. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I gather in your management of 
the water in your area, that probably is a concern. I've got 
one other question. 

You indicated that you had, of the 8,000 tanks in 
the district, 4,000 of them were closed. Does that mean they've 
stopped leaking? Does that also mean the business that those 
tanks supported are closed? 

MS. DE LUCA: Not necessarily; not necessarily. 
Those tanks could be replaced. They could be removed and 
replaced by sound tanks. 

And that's my understanding, that we haven't 
necessarily closed businesses. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: If the tanks are leaking and 
they don't do anything about it, I gather their business is 
closed? 

MS. DE LUCA: If the tanks are leaking, and — 
I'm sorry? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: And the individuals do not 
either replace the tanks or do something about it, and they're 
closed. 



8 

1 MS. DE LUCA: Then they have a problem. And we 

2 step in, and we close the tanks, yes. 

3 SENATOR KNIGHT: And you close the business? 

4 MS. DE LUCA: Well, if they're not cooperating, 

5 yes. That's part of the enforcement arm. 

6 SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you. 

7 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Baca. 

8 SENATOR BACA: Josephina, one of the questions 

9 that I have is pertaining to MTBE, since 1979 an additive to 

10 gasoline. The majority of the MTBE underground is believed to 

11 be coming from leaking underground gasoline tanks. 

12 Do you know the number of drinking water wells 

13 identifies to be affected by MTBE in the San Francisco Bay 

14 region? 

15 MS . DE LUCA: It's an alarmingly high number. In 

16 the 70th and 80th percentage area. It's a significant number. 

17 SENATOR BACA: How does the San Francisco Bay 

18 Region deal with the leaking of the underground storage tank 

19 sites that have been MTBE contamination; do you know? 

20 MS. DE LUCA: Can you repeat the question, please? 

21 SENATOR BACA: How does the San Francisco Bay 

22 Region deal with leaking underground storage tanks, sites that 

23 have been identified with MTBE contamination? 

24 MS. DE LUCA: The MTBE, well, we actually go in 

25 there, and they're pumped out. And we do everything we can to 

26 identify the extent of the dispersal of the plumes. 

27 That's where we're finding the difficulty in it, 

28 because at first blush, it might seem that the effluent has been 



picked up. We're finding, with more sophisticated studies, that 
the chemical is more incidious than we had originally thought, 
and that it is dispersing beyond what was at first suspected. 

So there has to be a restudy of this whole 
question of how to contain these plumes. 

SENATOR BACA: One final question I have is, when 
we look at water quality and polluted runoffs, such as 
pesticides used, mining, logging, and a lot of times even in 
farming areas where the runoff goes on in that area and it 
affects the water quality, what can be done or needs to be done 
to work jointly, not only in improving the water quality, but 
also at the same time, not affecting those individuals that 
maybe are not really responsible in one sense, but yet, are part 
of the runoff? 

Like in my area, there's a dairy, and then when 
it rains and the runoff flows in there, it affects the quality 
of water in that area. What can be done, or what coordinated 
efforts are you doing to work jointly? 

MS. DE LUCA: Right. I think it's basically an 
education program and an imposition of fines if they don't 
accept better management practices that have been devised to 
improve the situation. Better flushing techniques for dairies, 
better containment of pesticides and herbicides for various 
kinds of farming operations. 

SENATOR BACA: Who gets fined? 

MS. DE LUCA: Who gets fined is, the farmer gets 
fined. 

SENATOR BACA: But if there is a runoff or it's 



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raining at that point, it's nature that has caused the problem. 
Yet, they're being fined and penalized to some degree. 

It seems like there should be some kind of a way 
to also help the farmers as well. Although we're dealing with 
pesticides -- 

MS. DE LUCA: I think that the acts of God are 
all factored into the decisions of what penalties to assess. 

SENATOR BACA: Okay, thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Further questions? 

Do you have family you'd like to introduce? 

MS. DE LUCA: I have my distinguished husband 
here, John De Luca. 

MR. DE LUCA: I just want to say, water into wine 
or wine into water, she is so independent you can't believe it. 

[Laughter] 

MS. DE LUCA: But I do enjoy a. glass with dinner. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any witnesses in support, 
please? 

MR. GUALCO: Mr. Chairman, Members, Jack Gualco 
on behalf of the California Council for Environmental and 
Economic Balance. 

We've had the pleasure of witnessing Ms. De 
Luca's performance on the Board. We find her to be innovative, 
thoughtful, and willing to assume the tough challenge of trying 
to protect the integrity of California's water right law when 
under pressure from the Federal Clean Water Act. It's a 
Herculean task, and we've found her to be up to it. 

We request that you confirm her nomination by the 



11 

Governor. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any further in support? Please 

MS. PATTON: Chairman Burton and Members of the 
Committee, I'm Joan Patton. I'm an environmental consultant 
with the San Francisco Estuary Project. I've been an 
environmental activist for 25 years, and I've been Conservation 
Director for the Oceanic Society, a nonprofit. 

I have worked with many environmental 
organizations, and as a member of the environmental community, I 
support the confirmation of Jo De Luca. She is experienced. 
She has the skills and the environmental perspective and ability 
to work with the environmental community. 

And in a highly urbanized region such as the Bay 
Area, with very complex environmental problems, I think that she 
brings the skills necessary to protect San Francisco Bay and 
this very fragile eco-system.' 

SENATOR HUGHES: Move the nomination. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any opposition? Seeing none, 
moved by Senator Hughes, call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. 



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CHAIRMAN BURTON: Hold the roll open for Senator 
Lewis . 

Thank you and congratulations. 

Francine Diamond. Go ahead, please. 

MS. DIAMOND: Good morning, Senator Burton, 
Members of the Committee. 

It's a great honor to be before you today. I am 
a native Los Angeleno, born in 1943, having spent most of my 
summers taking public transportation to the beaches in Santa 
Monica . 

At the age of 25, along with my husband and other 
peoples in the community, we founded No Oil, which was to stop 
Occidental Oil from drilling along the coast in the Los Angeles 
coastal area. Twenty years later, we were finally successful 
after many, many years of hard work, and this was my initiation 
into the environmental community and to my passion of 
Commitment to water quality and to environmental quality in 
California. 

I worked for the State Controller at the time the 
State Controller was Gray Davis as the special assistant on 
environmental issues from 1989 to 1992. 

I served on the Los Angeles Beach Commission for 
four years, and have been a member of the California League of 
Conservation Voters for six years. I serve on the Executive 
Committee . 

Last year, I was very honored by State Senator 
Hilda Solis as one of the Women of the Year in California for my 
work on environmental justice. 



13 

I've also been a small business owner for over 
eight years, and I think I bring to this position the common 
sense that is necessary for a person in business. 

My life has demonstrated a passion and commitment 
to the environment of California, and I believe that there are 
no problems that can't be solved. By that I mean, everybody 
needs to come to the table. And I choose to assume that 
everybody who comes to that table is supporting the issue of 
water quality. 

I believe as a public member of this Board -- and 
I have to say, I was just appointed in April, so I've just 
attended my third meeting, and I am extremely impressed with the 
kind of issues that come before us, the kind of commitment and 
work that the Board and the staff have to bring to this. And it 
is a tremendous learning curve which I am embarked upon. 

But I do take this appointment as a sacred trust. 
As a member of the Los Angeles Regional Water Quality Control 
Board, my goal is to serve the public, to make sure that the 
environment and public health are being served. 

I believe that my job is to enforce the federal 
and state water laws, and to be sure that the permits that are 
issued are clear, comprehensive, and consistent. That 
monitoring is effective, and that enforcements are increased. 

As a member of the Board for the last few 
months, I have been happy to see that our enforcement record 
over the last two years has greatly increased. We do have a new 
Executive Director who has been there for two years, and that is 
really one of the reasons. 



14 

1 The administrative civil liability actions, or 

2 ACLs, have gone up tremendously over the last two years. As a 

3 matter of fact, since January of '98, we have fined — there 

4 have been over $3.2 million collected, or penalties that have 

5 been collected for our region. 

6 One of the most noted ones was the sewage 
pipeline spill in the city of Thousand Oaks that resulted in 

8 over 86 million gallons of raw sewage being spilled, and closing 

9 tens of miles of beaches in the city of Thousand Oaks for an 

10 extended period of time. That resulted in a penalty $2.3 

11 million and gave notice to the region that the Water Board was 

12 serious about enforcement. 

13 I share that priority of enforcement and hope to 

14 be, as a new member the Board, to be a part of making sure that 

15 those water laws are enforced. And that would be a priority of 

16 mine. 

17 Another issue that's come before us is the issue 

18 of nonpoint source pollution. We're learning that some water 

19 quality problems can't be solved without addressing this issue. 

20 The point sources, such as publicly owned treatment centers and 

21 power plants and refineries, those sources are continuing to 

22 be -- we're continuing to reduce the contribution from those 

23 point sources. So, the relative contribution from nonpoint 

24 sources is increasing. 

25 Recently, the Regional Board, actually at our 

26 last meeting, issued — and we're talking about nonpoint sources 

27 being municipal storm water. We issued municipal storm water 

28 permit two weeks ago to the city of Long Beach, which 



15 

incorporates a lot of new initiatives that advance the cause of 
nonpoint source pollution control. This, we hope, will be a 
model for other cities. 

Another example of growing water contamination 
from nonpoint sources is domestic waste water from sewage — 
from septic tanks. This is an issue in the city of Malibu, for 
example, that we are dealing with. And we are undergoing with 
Malibu a technical investigation of water quality, particularly 
in the Malibu Lagoon, and what contribution septic tanks make to 
that. And we are finding that there are a lot of septic tanks 
that Malibu does not even know exist. So, we're on an 
investigation of identifying all of them and finding out what 
exactly they contribute to the water quality of Malibu Lagoon. 

The other issue of MTBE is a big issue in Los 
Angeles, too. It's a fuel additive that travels very 
significantly and very quickly from its release point to impact 
groundwater and surface water. And in the city of Santa Monica, 
for example, seven wells have had to be closed because of the 
identification of MTBE. 

There are other wells that we are finding out 
that have also been impacted. 

Already the Regional Board in Los Angeles has had 
one enforcement action against the release site located near the 
Arcadia well fill in Santa Monica. And the cleanup of those 
impacted soils and groundwater are being implemented by the 
Regional Board along with the city of Santa Monica and the US 
EPA. And the treatment of water from the drinking aquifer is 
expected to eventually return the resources of the water wells 



16 

1 to the city. 

2 But it is a major problem, and there are other 

3 areas as well in the San Fernando Valley and in Pomona, where 

4 they detected MTBE . We know from evaluation that there are over 

5 20 potential sites that are still being considered for 

6 additional evaluation and remedial action. 

The last thing that I wanted to say to you today 

8 is that I look forward, if confirmed, to serving on this Board 

9 to make sure, again, that our permits are very consistent. 

10 I think that's one of the problems with the 

11 permits that I've noticed, is that we need more clear and 

12 consistent permits, and permits that are comprehensive, and that 

13 the enforcements be increased. 

14 I hope that some day I will be able to take my 

15 two-and-a-half year old granddaughter, Rebecca, to the beaches 

16 that I swam in and feel comfortable that she can swim in those 

17 waters and not become sick. 

18 So, thank you very much for your attention. 

19 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Would you like to introduce 

20 your family. 

21 MS. DIAMOND: I would to. 

22 I'd like to introduce my husband, Roger Diamond, 

23 and my daughter, Laura Diamond. 

2 4 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Questions, Members of the 

25 Committee. 

2 6 SENATOR BACA: Since she's answered all of my 

27 questions, I move the nomination. 

28 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Knight, since she 



17 

hasn't answered all his yet. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Well, I notice that most of your 
support comes from environmental groups, who traditionally 
oppose growth. 

Given your strong environmentalist background, 
how can you assure us that you will be fair with developers, 
property owners, farmers, and industrial water users? 

MS. DIAMOND: Well, as I mentioned in my opening 
remarks, I also, in my professional life, have been a small 
business owner, so I know that it's hard to do business. I've 
had a lot of issues before, permitting in order to do business. 

I understand that everybody needs to come to the 
table. I think I share the philosophy of the Governor, which is 
that there is no problem that can't be solved. And that is, 
public policy people and not as advocates -- as I might have 
been as a member of an environmental organization -- it's my 
obligation and duty to listen to everybody, and to make sure 
that everybody feels that they're part of the solution rather 
than the enemy. 

I would say that's my basic philosophy. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Then along those lines, the 
Lawrence Livermore Laboratory released a study in '98 that 
indicated that the environmental impact from leaking underground 
petroleum tanks was not as bad as claimed by environmental 
groups in the past. 

In light of this, would there be any change in 
your criteria that the Board would use to ensure Los Angeles 
area tank owners do not suffer undue financial burdens? 



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MS. DIAMOND: I think that we have to look at 
each case as it comes before us and evaluate. 

I do believe that my position as a public member 
on this Regional Water Quality Board is to make sure that the 
water quality is as good as possible. 

So, I can commit to look at every case as it 
comes before me and make appropriate decisions at those times, 
looking at all of the facts before us, the scientific evidence 
especially, and not weigh anybody's interest higher than others, 
but really looking at the quality of the water and the risk to 
public health. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in support, please. 
Witnesses in opposition. 

Hearing none, on Senator Baca's motion, call the 



roll. 



SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you and congratulations. 

MS. DIAMOND: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Jack. 



19 

MR. SMITH: Good morning. I'm Jack Smith. 

I graduated from Hastings. I'm pleased to be 
appointed by the Governor to that Board. I would ask your 
concurrence in that. 

I graduated from Hastings in 1954 and have been 
active in helping the school since that time. I really feel 
that the education that I received at Hastings was a real 
genuine help to me in my career and in my life, and I've 
appreciated the fact that Don Perata just got here. 

SENATOR PERATA: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair 
and Members. I'm delighted to be here, albeit a few moments 
late, to present to you Jack Smith. 

I've known Jack for more years than either one of 
us would like to recall. He has just been an exemplary citizen, 
both in his years as an elected official in the City of Hayward, 
and as someone who has been a very strong supporter, both 
partisan and nonpartisan, on issues that deal with the 
well-being of the State of California, particularly in the 
legacy of infrastructure. 

And I think it's very appropriate that he would 
serve on a board governing an institution which will live well 
beyond any of us here. And it is just another example, his 
interest in this is just another example of what a remarkable 
American he is, remarkable resident of this state, and a 
remarkable human being. 

So, I give him my highest commendation for your 
consideration. And of all the appointments that you have and 
will make, this will be one that will be at the very top. 



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Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

We're going to have to trust the Republicans, 
because he's such a close friend that I might have to recuse 
myself . 

SENATOR KNIGHT: That ' d be the first time. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: That I had a friend? 
[Laughter. ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Do you want to introduce your 
family? 

MR. SMITH: I'd like to introduce my daughter, 
Cynthia, who is also a graduate of Hastings, and my 
granddaughter, Alana. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: And my daughter who is a 
graduate of Hastings. 

I was lucky. I escaped after my first year and 
took the advice of a federal judge, "Go to USF. You'll have 
more fun and it's easier." 

[Laughter. ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: And it was both. 

SENATOR HUGHES: May I ask a question. 

It's a pleasure to meet you, sir. 

MR. SMITH: Thank you, Senator. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'd like to know how do you feel 
about supporting the UC Board of Regents differential policy for 
selected professional schools, including Hastings? 

Do you think it would be necessary to increase 
student fees further any time in the future? 



21 

MR. SMITH: We'd hope not. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Will you fight to see that that 
doesn't happen? 

MR. SMITH: I would do everything I could to keep 
the student fees down. They're now about — student fees are 
about 50 percent of the income to Hastings. 

The school itself has worked very hard to retain 
those fees without raising them. But in view of what happened 
since 1990 with regard to state support, it's been necessary to 
raise them some. 

I would hope that we would be able to avoid that 
in the future. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What kind of impact do you think 
that the current fee level has on recruiting and maintaining a 
diverse and talented pool of students? 

MR. SMITH: It's very hard to tell. 

We have at Hastings over 4,000 applications. Of 
those 4,000 applications, 70 to 80 percent of them are qualified 
to be accepted as students. They meet the grade requirements. 
They meet the test scores. You know, they could be students. 

From that, we take 400. So, it's really 
difficult to select those that are excluded because of the 
fees. 

We do have at Hastings, fortunately, a lot of 
people who have helped with scholarships, and we're increasing 
the scholarships all the time. It's amazing how the past — or 
the alumni of Hastings have come forward to help fill the gap 
so that they really do, in each student's case where they can, 



22 

1 they give some help. 

2 SENATOR HUGHES: Since you've been a graduate of 
Hastings and have been affiliated with the Board for quite 

4 sometime, I'm just curious, what kind of indicators does the 

5 Hastings Board look at to gauge the success of their graduates? 

6 MR. SMITH: Well, we have ~ it's really hard to 
tell that, too. We find Hastings graduates in most every large, 

8 major firm. We find the Hastings graduates -- more Hastings 

9 graduates are judges in the state than any other college or 

10 university. 

11 SENATOR HUGHES: That's interesting. I didn't 

12 know that. 

13 CHAIRMAN BURTON: More than USF? 

14 MR. SMITH: Thus far. They had more fun there. 

15 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Maybe San Francisco had the USF 

16 lock. 

17 MR. SMITH: I would say that could be true. 

18 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Especially under Pat Brown. 

19 MR. SMITH: That might be truer; although, Pat 

20 was very helpful with Hastings, too, Senator. 

21 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Baca. 

22 SENATOR BACA: I have a son that's going to law 

23 school right now, Joe Junior Baca. But he's not going to 

24 Hastings. 

2 5 What can be done? Jack, you indicated that about 

26 4,000 students apply, and about 400 get in. What can possibly 

27 be done in terms of, I guess, diversity of students that get in, 

28 or what kind of outreach programs need to be developed, if any, 



23 

to allow more students to get in, or to reach, as we look at the 
diversity and the growth of the population in the future as 
well? 

It goes along with the questions that Senator 
Teresa Hughes asked about financial aid, and the increases in 
that area. 

Do you have any idea or concept in terms of how 
you're going to be reaching out in the future as we look at more 
students? 

I know my son didn't apply there, but he went to 
another law school. 

MR. SMITH: It is interesting. We have the 4,000 
students apply, but of course those students, in large part, 
apply to a lot of the universities and schools. So, many of 
them are accepted. 

The fact that we have 4,000 applicants and take 
only 400, the other 3600, many of them find other law schools to 
go to. 

At Hastings, we have about a third of the 
students from minorities. They do very well as students. 

The only thing that we have been able to do at 
the school is to encourage the alumni to be involved more in 
contributing money to help with the scholarships and help with 
the running of the institution. 

I don't have a really good answer to your 
question. 

SENATOR BACA: One final question. 

Why is it that so many students are applying to 



24 

Hastings? 

MR. SMITH: Well, I think that actually a number 
of the students feel that the legal education is a good idea, 
even if they're not going to be lawyers. 

We do find and increasing number of graduates of 
law schools who are involved in business, in politics, in other 
factors as far as government is concerned. And I think that 
what has happened is, a lot of students have decided that an MBA 
or law degree is important, and the law degree gets them just as 
far and sometimes further than the MBA. 

SENATOR BACA: Do you have any numbers or 
statistics in terms of the success ratio of individuals who have 
graduated or passed the Bar the first time around? Is there a 
number available? 

MR. SMITH: The only type of numbers we have are 
those that are able to get jobs after they've graduated from 
Hastings. The percentage is very high. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

I think the law school my son's going to is about 
85 percent, or something like that. 

MR. SMITH: Where does your son go to 



school? 



500 



SENATOR BACA: La Verne. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What are the fees now? 

MR. SMITH: It's about $10,000. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Ten grand? When I went, it was 

MR. SMITH: I think when I went, John, it was 



25 

less then that. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: No, it was not. USF was 500. 
It was 60 bucks, because I went the year after Willie, so that 
was '57. It was $60 dollars a semester. 

MR. SMITH: I went in '54, and I was on the GI 
Bill. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Was it over on Van Ness then? 

MR. SMITH: It was on Van Ness when I started. I 
went to Van Ness for two years, then I was called back during 
the Korean conflict; I lost two years. Then I finished on the 
new building on McAllister. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: This will really be of interest 
to you, Senator Knight, when we were taking some course at USF, 
and they were talking about a purpresture, which is some 
problem. But anyway, they used as an example that over on Van 
Ness, when the Hastings students took their break, and they were 
all in the street, and you couldn't walk down the sidewalk, that 
was a purpresture. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: What? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: It was a crowd. 

There's one concern that I have had in the past 
with Hastings, or I think it's probably gone by the boards now, 
but at one time they were very insensitive to the local 
neighborhood and community people as they went along, their 
building programs. And I hope that most of that stuff's behind, 
but from time to time, if things come up, I ' d be in contact and 
hope you might be able to use your good offices with them. 

I think they learned their lesson after a couple 



26 

fights, to bring community in on what they're doing so that, all 
of a sudden, there's not a big stink. 

MR. SMITH: I ' d be for all that. They did have 
considerable trouble for a while, but Dean Mary Cane who is here 
with me today, has really worked very hard to avoid those 
problems and to get along with the community. 

It's a strange place for a law school, really. 
It's in the Tenderloin, and it does require a little extra work 
on the part of the faculty and the students to integrate 
themselves into the neighborhood. 

But they've learned that the students can be 
helpful in some ways for those folks, and they seem to get along 
now, John. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'd like to disagree with you. 
I think it's a good location. It means that it's not just for 
us, but it's for just us. 

MR. SMITH: I think you're right. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I really believe that. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Except when it got there, the 
Tenderloin didn't get down that far. Some refer to it as the 
Civic Center. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Mr. Smith, I've got a couple 
questions, or one comment really. 

You went to Hastings under the GI Bill? 

MR. SMITH: I did. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: And do you think that was a 
pretty good system, a voucher system associated with the GI 
Bill? 



27 

MR. SMITH: I don't know about that being a 
voucher system. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: He liked the 52.50; I know that. 

MR. SMITH: I do think the GI Bill was one of the 
better things that happened to this country. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: It kind of made schools, too; 
didn't it? 

MR. SMITH: It did, and it made it possible for 
an awful lot of people who would never have attended college to 
go to college. They were a serious group of people. They 
worked hard. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I understand. 

One other thing. What do you think about the 



Mini Bar? 



Mini Bar? 



MR. SMITH: Pardon me? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: What do you think about the 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: That stuff they have in the 



hotels. 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Whatever. I'm not a lawyer, and 
I didn't take it. But it's a small Bar. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: It's the so-called Baby Bar. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Examine that is required of 
students going to nonaccredited law schools, in their first 
year. 

MR. SMITH: I see. I'm not really familiar with 
that bar. 



28 

1 CHAIRMAN BURTON: We haven't heard from that 

2 issue in a long time. That's an issue that keeps circulating. 

3 And the theory of it is that if you go to an unaccredited law 

4 school for some reason, you take this Baby Bar, and then it 

5 tells you whether in three years you're going to pass the actual 

6 Bar. 

7 I always thought it was silly. I think I 

8 probably voted to abolish it. I thought it was unfair to those 

9 who went to unaccredited schools. 

10 Witnesses in support, please. 

11 SENATOR HUGHES: I'd like to move the 

12 nomination. 

13 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in opposition. 

14 Call the roll. 

15 SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

16 SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

17 SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Hughes. 

18 SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

19 SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 
2 SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

21 SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Burton. 

22 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

23 Congratulations, Jack. 

24 [Thereupon this portion of the 

25 Senate Rules Committee hearing was 

26 terminated at approximately 10:31 A.M.] 

27 — ooOoo — 
28 



29 

CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 

I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

INJtflTNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 

, 1999. 




VELYN J'T^MI ZAKn 
Shorthand Reporter 




379-R 

Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.25 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 

Senate Publications 

1 020 N Street, Room B-53 

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Make checks payable to SENATE RULES COMMITTEE. 
Please include Stock Number 379-R when ordering. 



I'm 
^o. n 



DOCUMENTS DEPT. 



^HEARING 

SENATEJ3ULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



OCI -41999 

SAN FRANCISCO 
PUBLIC LIBRARY 




STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 113 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

WEDNESDAY, JULY 14, 1999 
11:03 A.M. 



380-R 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 113 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



WEDNESDAY, JULY 14, 1999 
11:03 A.M. 



Reported by: 



Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 



APPEARANCES 

MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 

SENATOR JOHN LEWIS, Vice Chair 

SENATOR TERESA HUGHES 

SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

MEMBERS ABSENT 

SENATOR JOE BACA 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

WADE TEASDALE, Consultant to SENATOR LEWIS 

FELICE TANENBAUM, Consultant to SENATOR HUGHES 

CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to SENATOR KNIGHT 

ALSO PRESENT 

MIMI H. SILBERT, Ph.D., Member 
Board of Corrections 

ALAN CLARK 

Chief Probation Officers 

THOMAS L. SOTO, Member 
Board of Corrections 

ANDREA E. TUTTLE , Director 

Department of Forestry and Fire Protection 

SENATOR WES CHESBRO 

TOM GARDNER, President 
CDF Firefighters 

COREY BROWN 

Trust for Public Land 



Ill 



RACHEL DINNO 

Planning and Conservation League 

MELINDA TERRY 

California Forestry Association 

KATHIE SCHMIECHEN 
National Audubon Society 

ALLEN AMARO 

Disabled Veterans Business Enterprise Network of Northern 

California 



IV 

INDEX 

Page 
Proceedings 1 

Governor ' s Appointees : 

MIMI H. SILBERT, Ph.D., Member 

Board of Corrections 1 

Background and Experience 1 

Motion to Confirm 2 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Lack of Government Subsidies 

To Run Delancey Street 3 

Witness in Support: 

ALAN CLARK 

Chief Probation Officers 4 

Committee Action 4 

THOMAS L. SOTO, Member 

Board of Corrections 4 

Background and Experience 5 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Qualifications for Position 6 

Witness in Support: 

ALAN CLARK 

Chief Probation Officers 7 

Motion to Confirm 7 

Statements by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Explanation of Vote 7 

Committee Action 8 



ANDREA E. TUTTLE, Director 

Department of Forestry and Fire Protection 8 

Introduction and Support by 

SENATOR WES CHESBRO 8 

Background and Experience 9 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Position on "Super Scooper" 11 

Department Goals 12 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Use of Super Scooper in Malibu Fire 13 

Need for Further Restrictions 

On Timber Industry in California 14 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Aircraft for Firefighting 15 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Department ' s Outreach Program 16 

Extent of Use of CCC 16 

Replacement of Retiring Personnel 17 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Issuance of Regulations 18 

Status of Board Quorum 19 

Repercussions from Not Issuing 

New Regulations 2 

Witnesses in Support: 

TOM GARDNER, President 

CDF Firefighters 20 



VI 



COREY BROWN 

Trust for Public Land 2 

RACHEL DINNO 

Planning and Conservation League 2 

MELINDA TERRY 

California Forestry Association 21 

KATHIE SCHMIECHEN 

National Audubon Society 21 

Witness in Support with Concerns: 

ALLEN AMARO 

Disabled Veterans Business Enterprises 

Network of Northern California 21 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Flying Tiger Jacket 22 

Motion to Confirm 23 

Committee Action 23 

Termination of Proceedings 23 

Certificate of Reporter 24 



P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 
— 00O00 — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Governor appointees, 
Dr. Silbert. 

Senator Rainey hoped to be here to introduce 
Dr. Silbert, but he, unfortunately, is in committee across the 
way. 

You may proceed. 

DR. SILBERT: Hi. My name is Mimi Silbert. 
Needless to say, I am honored to receive this appointment. 

I served on the Board of Corrections for two 
terms under Governor Deukmejian. I found it to be not only 
doing wonderful things for all of the counties, but an 
incredibly loyal, dedicated staff. And lo and behold, the same 
staff is there now. I look forward to working with them. 

A little about myself. Criminal justice is my 
whole life, to be honest. In the '60s, I got a doctorate in 
criminology. I taught at UC Berkeley, at San Francisco State. 
I trained hundreds of police departments, probation departments 
around the country. 

And for 25 years, I've developed, run, and lived 
in an organization called Delancey Street Foundation, which 
turns around the lives of pretty serious felons. I'd like for a 
minute, of course, to put a pitch in for Delancey Street, not 
for money, because we don't take any government money, but just 
for the concept of hope. 

We're in an era where, I think, we don't really 
believe that those kinds of people can change. We've got 13,000 



graduates. I would love to invite any of you to come visit. 
We've got a place in Los Angeles and a place in San Francisco. 

Senator Burton told me -- he is my 
representative -- he told me two minutes, and I know that when 
Senator Burton says two minutes, I'd better be quiet. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Give them your savior speech. 
We've got an hour or two. 

DR. SILBERT: People can change. 

So, you know it really -- it's just everything 
that I care about is criminal justice. I live in the 
organization. I brought my kids up in it, and I feel that the 
Board of Corrections is particularly terrific because it lets 
every county devise what it needs. 

And I'm happy to answer any questions. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: If there is no opposition, I'd 
like to move her, because I want her to stay within her 
limitations . 

See, he wasn't serious when he said that. 

But I've been to Delancey Street. It's a 
wonderful facility. 

DR. SILBERT: Great. Thank you. 

SENATOR HUGHES: If you've had any part in it, 
you're to be congratulated. 

DR. SILBERT: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Good morning. 

Did you say that you accomplished all that you do 



without any government subsidies? 

DR. SILBERT: Yes. We've never taken any 
government money. 

SENATOR LEWIS: How in the world did you do that? 

DR. SILBERT: We have this radical concept of 
earning a living by working. So, our residents, we have a 
moving company. We have a restaurant. We do catering. We 
teach people marketable skills because they have none. In 
addition to all their bad attitudes, et cetera, they have no 
skills . 

We teach them skills, and at the same time, that 
money supports them. We earn a living. 

SENATOR LEWIS: That's a radical, revolutionary 
concept . 

DR. SILBERT: Exactly. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Do you have any family you'd 
like to introduce? Are Frick and Frack here? 

DR. SILBERT: I didn't bring Frick and Frack. 

I brought my two children up in Delancey Street. 
They are now older than I am. I did not bring them. And 
unfortunately, I failed in bringing them up because they're both 
attorneys . 

I do have a resident of Delancey Street. I'd 
like him to stand, Frank Schweikert. I'd like him to stand 
because he looks like a nice, all-American boy. And he is one 
now, but before he came to Delancey Street, he had 18, eighteen, 
felony convictions. 

I say that, again, because it's so important to 



4 

me to press the point that change is possible. So, I'd love to 
introduce him. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any speakers in support? 

MR. CLARK: Good morning, Senator. Alan Clark on 
behalf of the Chief Probation Officers here to support both Mimi 
and Mr. Soto to the Board of Corrections. 

The Board is a very important agency to 
probation. On behalf of my clients, the Chief Probation 
Officers, we're happy to endorse both of these candidates and 
urge your approval of them. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any opposition? 

Call the roll, please. 

MR. SCHMIDT: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

MR. SCHMIDT: Senator Knight. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

MR. SCHMIDT: Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: What are we voting on? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Dr. Silbert. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. 

DR. SILBERT: Thank you very much, Senator. 
[Thereupon the Rules Committee 
acted upon legislative items on 
the agenda. ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thomas Soto. 

MR. SOTO: Good morning, Mr. President and 



Members . 

I, too, am very pleased to be here this morning, 
having recently been asked by the Governor to serve on the Board 
of Corrections, and look forward to doing so, hopefully after 
this meeting. 

My name is Thomas Soto. A little bit about 
myself. I'm not as familiar with the Board of Corrections as 
most of my colleagues are who sit on the Board currently, and 
certainly the staff. But as a public member, I'm looking 
forward to getting that learning curve behind me and gaining a 
clear understanding of its function, as well as the way that it 
can help to improve the quality of life in California overall. 
I'm certainly looking forward to that. 

My background is that I'm President of PS 
Enterprises, which is about a $4 million a year company that we 
provide environmental compliance and strategic planning for 
companies and public agencies with respect to Clean Water Act, 
Clean Air Act issues, and have been a life-long resident of 
California. 

We have offices, by the way, in Oakland and in 
Santa Monica. We have about 20 to 23 employees that work for me 
full-time . 

In addition to that, I'm mostly known throughout 
the State of California more, perhaps so, as an environmental 
activist, having been President of the Coalition for Clean Air 
for a number of years, seated on the Board of the California 
League of Conservation Voters, and being active with local and 
other grassroots organizations that help to improve urban 



qualify of life as well as air quality and environmental 
policy. 

But with that, that's basically my introduction, 
and look forward to your favorable vote on this item. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Questions, Members of the 
Committee? Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I just had one question. 

The last appointee we had was imminently well 
qualified in this field. I think you're taking a public slot, 
but is there anything in your background or educational 
experience that makes you qualified in this area? 

MR. SOTO: I think that some of the activities 
that I've been involved with the L.A. Police Department, 
perhaps, would be helpful in that respect. 

SENATOR LEWIS: What kind of activities are 
those? 

MR. SOTO: Sitting on the Gay and Lesbian Task 
Force for the LAPD, which helped to develop a series of policies 
and initiatives to improve not only relations with the 
community, but also identifying hate crimes, and being a little 
bit more discriminate with respect to understanding them for the 
police force. 

But I will be the first to admit that I probably 
have the least amount of knowledge with respect to this item, 
but feel as though, as a public member, I think that certainly 
the management skills that I have as a businessman in California 
will prove a positive contribution to this Board. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any other questions, Members? 



Speakers in support? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: We might put out as one of the 
great recommendations is, I served in the Assembly with his 
father 30-something years ago, and now we have his mother in the 
Assembly, after a wait. 

In fact I'll tell you, if you want a little 
trivia, Bill Campbell's the person who beat his father in 1966 
when he lived in Hacienda Heights. He was a moderate 
Republican. 

MR. SOTO: He remains a very good family friend 
to this day. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: With term limits, we're going to 
lose all of that trivia. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: That's history, Colonel. 

MR. CLARK: Thank you, Senator Burton. Again, 
Alan Clark, Chief Probation Officers here to support Mr. Soto on 
behalf of the Probation Chiefs here in California. 

Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any witnesses in opposition? 

Moved by Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I just want to explain my vote. 

I was planning on abstaining on this nomination 
because I had some concerns on some policy matters but also on 
qualifications . 

But Senator Baca's not here, and I'm led to 
believe that he would vote for the nominee if he were here, so 
I'm going to cast a courtesy vote. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Reserving a right on the 



Floor. 



SENATOR LEWIS: Absolutely, yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you very much, Senator. 

Call the roll. 

MR. SCHMIDT: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

MR. SCHMIDT: Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

MR. SCHMIDT: Senator Knight. Senator 



Burton. 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

You're recommended to the Floor. 

I thank Senator Lewis for his courtesy vote for 
Senator Baca, who did inform me that he would have cast an aye 
vote. 

MR. SOTO: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Andrea Tuttle. 

Senator Chesbro. 

SENATOR CHESBRO: Mr. Chairman and Members, it 
gives me a great pleasure today to introduce to the Committee 
someone whom I have known both personally and in her 
professional capacities for over 25 years. I count Andrea 
Tuttle and her husband, Don, among my closest and dearest 
friends . 

My reason for offering to introduce Andrea to you 
this morning, however, for confirmation as Director of Forestry 
is not based simply on our friendship. I am commending her to 
you as the Senator who represents the Second Senate District, 



where the fabled timber wars have raised with the greatest 
intensity, and where the largest number of jobs in the state 
share a difficult co-existence with endangered fish and birds. 

One of my predecessors once described the 
district by saying, "All my constituents love trees. The only 
problem is that half of them like them standing up, and the 
other half like them laying down, " which, I think, aptly 
describes the difficulty of the state's most important timber 
growing region. 

Andrea has a long list of qualifications based on 
her public service experience, her research and academic work, 
and her work on sustainable forest practices both in California 
and internationally. 

I'm before you today to introduce Andrea Tuttle 
because of my unequivocal belief that she is the person who is 
best qualified to address California's forest practices 
controversy in a balanced and a thoughtful way. Like many of 
us, she does not believe that we have to choose between the 
forest ecology and the forest economy, but rather that a well 
thought out, scientifically sound regulatory approach can 
provide both jobs and habitat. 

Mr. Chairman, it gives me a great deal of 
pleasure today to introduce one of Governor Davis' best 
appointments to date, Andrea Tuttle. 

MS. TUTTLE: Thank you very much, Senator 
Chesbro, for that very warm and gracious introduction. Yes, Wes 
and I have shared a very long friendship, both working on the — 
coming from the North Coast and sharing the challenges that you 



10 

have that you have in that area. 

Senator, I'd like to introduce my husband, Don, 
who is here with me, my companion for over 30 years. He's in 
the back. 

And I'd also like to introduce my Chief Deputy, 
who was appointed with me by Governor Davis, Chief Woody 
Allshouse, who has a lifetime of service in CDF. He started in 
his high school years and has been in the Department, wearing 
many different hats within it, and I want to express my sincere 
appreciation to him for all that he brings to the organization 
and the help that he gives me. 

Also in the audience, I'd like to acknowledge the 
many people from CDF who are — these are the people who really 
make the organization. It is a very strong and capable 
organization, and I rely on these people. You should be very 
proud of who you have within CDF. 

There are three points that I would like to make 
today regarding CDF as a department because I think they're 
important to highlight. 

The first challenge, and certainly one that's not 
unique to CDF, is something that we're going to be facing 
throughout state government, and has to do with the demographics 
of CDF. All of us are getting older, and the Baby Boomers who 
were hired in the '70s are now getting ready to retire. 
Depending on the classification, between 50 and 95 percent of 
CDF's supervisory levels are going to be retiring, or eligible 
to retire, in the next five years. 

And this is not just the top management 



11 

positions. This reaches all the way down into the organization, 
five or so levels down to the battalion chiefs, who would 
normally be the group that you would be recruiting from. 

As my personnel experts call it in the 
Department, they say, "This is the Y2K of personnel management 
that not only state government faces, but also private 
industry." Monday's Wall Street Journal had an article on this 
very issue. 

All of us are going to have to approach this with 
the same sense of purpose that we brought to the computer issue 
for year 2000. 

Now, at the moment, CDF has an additional 
challenge in the form of a salary structure that, frankly, 
penalizes promotion. At the moment, it's very hard for us to 
move people up in the organization because they make less. 
We're working with the appropriate departments to try and work 
this out so that we can get people promoted who have the 
experience to deal with the kinds of emergencies that CDF needs 
to be prepared for. 

The second issue I'd like to raise has to do with 
the urbanization of our wild lands. It used to be that CDF was 
a wild land firefighting organization. Now people are moving 
into the wild lands. CDF needs the equipment, the training for 
our firefighters to be able to fight more structural fires and 
deal with more urban kinds of problems in the wild land. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What's your position on that 
scooper pooper? 

MS. TUTTLE: Frankly, Senator, there has been a 



12 

lot of research on the merits of that particular aircraft. And 
by and large, it does not meet the needs of CDF. 

It could fit into the overall fleet, but it's a 
very expensive plane. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: It's made up in Canada? 

MS. TUTTLE: Yes. CDF uses fire retardant. We 
don't use as much water. You often don't have lakes in places 
to scoop water from. Our basic initial attack approach is to 
use retardant. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

MS. TUTTLE: So, in all of your counties that 
this interface exists, it's throughout the whole Sierra front, 
it's Riverside, it's San Bernardino, it's San Diego, it's the 
North Coast counties, and California is a tinder box, and we 
need to persist with all the tools that we have for dealing with 
the fuel problem. 

Now, we did have some recent bad experiences with 
an escaped prescribed burn, but what I would suggest there as 
the remedy is to fix the way we do our prescriptions, but not 
throw the tool out. It's a very important tool. 

The third issue which Senator Chesbro raised has 
to do, of course, with CDF's responsibilities in timber 
harvesting. Frankly, I don't think we'll ever have complete 
truce in timber country, but I think the timber industry has 
come a long way in recognizing its responsibility to protect 
wildlife habitat, to protect the endangered salmon. 

And there are things that CDF needs to do. We're 
working with the industry, we're working with the environmental 



13 

community/ and there will always be challenges there. 

Let me conclude here and just acknowledge that 
CDF is a very large and complex organization. There's many 
aspects to it. I'm honored to be part of it, and I'm looking 
forward to working with you on the various problems that we're 
going to be challenged with. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: With regards to the super 
scooper, wasn't that used in the Malibu fire number of years 
ago? 

MS. TUTTLE: I believe it has been used by L.A. 
County. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Do you recall the success or lack 
thereof in fighting that particular fire? 

MS. TUTTLE: That particular fire, I'd have to 
get back to you on that information. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: That ' d be close to the ocean 
where you could get the water. 

MS. TUTTLE: Yeah. It's a question of location 
and the utility of the aircraft over the wide range of fires 
that we fight. 

If — I think the Department's position has been 
that we would be happy to add it to the fleet if we could afford 
it, but frankly, we've been able to get better utility out of 
the aircraft that we are retrofitting that we've been getting 
for a fairly low price. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Just the other question, my 
understanding is that in the last 20 years, forest growth has 



14 

exceeded forest harvests on an annual basis for the last 20 
years. 

Given that fact, do you think we need any further 
restrictions on the timber industry in California? 

MS. TUTTLE: There's a lot of aspects to timber 
management and good silvaculture. 

One of the issues where you see most of the 
debate now has to do with wildlife habitat and salmon 
protection. So, the debate now is centering around the sizes of 
buffer strips, riparian zones along streams, and that's where 
the salmon have been impacted because of sediment runoff. 

As far as growth, yes. We have a lot of trees in 
the ground. The question then becomes the age structure of the 
trees, and what kinds of habitat they're providing for species 
that are dependent on older stands. 

I'm not worried about California running out of 
timber. The timber industry has done a tremendous job at 
restocking their lands. 

We have an age gap where we're waiting for some 
of those trees to get old enough so that we get a diversity of 
habitat types through the forest. 

SENATOR LEWIS: So, the answer is? 

MS. TUTTLE: The answer is that if you're just 
looking at numbers of are trees, we're in good shape. The 
question is their age and their distribution, and the techniques 
that we use for keeping sediment out of the streams as we 
harvest them. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Knight. 



15 

SENATOR KNIGHT: You had talked about the 
aircraft. 

Have you looked at any other aircraft that have 
been proposed by various entrepreneurs? 

MS. TUTTLE: CDF, during the budget hearings for 
many years now, CDF has often been approached with suggestions 
for other aircraft. And we have provided -- I've looked at the 
reports. Of course, I wasn't involved with preparing them, but 
I have looked at some of the analyses that were done on the 
utility of a whole number of alternatives. 

And I'm certainly able to get you the results of 
those analyses, because, of course, we look at alternatives. 
The primary issue is the way that CDF fights fires, our approach 
in using retardant, and the ability of aircraft to reach the 
area as quickly that we need to reach the distances they need to 
travel. There's a number — their take-off distances, there's a 
large number of factors. 

Frankly, it comes down to a legislative 
appropriation. And for now, CDF and the Legislature have 
committed to the current retrofit program that we have with the 
S2Ts. 

I hope you get a chance to see them in action. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I would like to see a proposal, 
and see if you had a proposal on an A-10. 

MS. TUTTLE: I ' d be happy to. I have my folks 
right here, and they're taking notes. They'll be happy to get 
that to you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Hughes. 



16 

SENATOR HUGHES: Two quick questions. Thank you 
for your continuing interest in fire protection. 

I want to ask you, what does your Department do 
for outreach? Specifically, what are you doing now, since 
you're going to have to hire all this new personnel? Describe 
the outreach program. 

And in your functioning, how often and to what 
extent do you use the CCC? 

MS. TUTTLE: You and I share an interest in this, 
Senator. Almost the first day, when I walked in the door, I 
asked my personnel people to put together a profile for me of 
who are people in CDF, and what is our distribution with 
ethnicity and, of course, gender as well for me. 

And as with many state agencies, CDF does fairly 
well but we can always do better. We meet our parity levels in 
many groups but, we don't meet it in others. 

Frankly, part of it has to do so with who wants 
to join the fire service, who looks to this as a job. 

But on the other hand, this is a terrific job. 
We hire mostly at the entry level. The people that we have 
applying are very qualified. 

We do look to the CCCs . They're the kind of 
people that have had experience now in team work, in working 
together. They've had some discipline. They've learned how to 
use tools. And these are the kinds of skills that we need. We 
do a lot of seasonal firefighter hiring, and so we do have 
strong recruiting programs, outreach programs, into the 
schools . 



17 

What we need to do, I think, is to make sure that 
we're reaching out into a diversity of neighborhoods and 
locations for our recruiting. 

We are — our personnel people are very sensitive 
to that, and they're doing their best. 

SENATOR HUGHES: But you have a tremendous number 
of experienced people who are going to be retiring. I'm sure 
that worries you; it worries us. 

And what are you going to do, because you're not 
saying to them, "Well, if you had experience, we'll promote 
you . " 

Or, do you have some people that you're going to 
promote into those spots, too, and then how are you going to 
replace them? 

MS. TUTTLE: Traditionally, CDF has been an 
organization that hires at the entry level and brings people up 
through the fire ranks. And so, we do have a core now of people 
up to the Fire Captain level who are getting, particularly now 
that we're into fire season, they're getting lots of experience 
right now as we speak. We have fires going all over the state, 
particularly with this hot weather. These folks are out there 
in hot gear, and we are relying, you and I and the state, are 
relying on these people for their initial attack capabilities. 

So yes, as a dynamic, I see us with this Y2K 
issue being required to reach out very far to get the people 
into the organization, and then promote those we have now and 
get them up into these decision-making positions, who are making 
decisions about life and property, and the high risks of 



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18 

emergencies . 

We need mature decision-makers. We need people 
who have been out there on the line. 

So, I'll be happy to talk with you more about 
this, because it's an issue that I'm certainly concerned about 
as well. 

SENATOR HUGHES: You don't need to talk to me 
about it. Just do the job that you know you have to do. And it 
sounds like you know what you're doing. I can't advise you on 
it, but I'm very excited about your experience in the area of 
interest . 

And realizing that your agency's going to lose so 
many people, it's very important that you do elevate some of 
these people who have been around for quite sometime. 

Thank you very much. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Have you issued your regs yet? 
The Department of Forestry, aren't they coming up with some 
regulations? 

MS. TUTTLE: The Board of Forestry? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I guess the Board. You have 
nothing to do with them? 

MS. TUTTLE: Yes. We administer the forest 
practice rules. I'm sorry; I just misunderstood you. 

A rule package was just introduced to the Board 
of Forestry at its last meeting regarding protections for coho 
salmon. 

We did not have any — or the Board, the forest 
practice rules did not have any codified rules for protecting 



19 

the endangered salmon, which were listed fairly recently. We've 
been sued. We're under a lot of pressure to codify the measures 
that we used to protect coho. 

A package was introduced to the Board. We just 
received two new Board appointments yesterday. So, the Board 
will be ready to take these on. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Who are they? 

MS. TUTTLE: Supervisor Stan Dixson from Humboldt 
County, who's been a long -- good member, experienced member of 
the Board of Supervisors, and Kirk Markwald, who has an, I 
believe, it's an energy-related consulting firm, but he has had 
experience with forestry issues. 

They will fill out the quorum now for the Board 
so that they can move forward and have hearings on these regs . 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Do you have a full board or 
just a quorum board? 

MS. TUTTLE: It's a quorum board. I believe 
there's still two vacancies. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Out of how many, five? 

MS. TUTTLE: Nine. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, you have seven? 

MS. TUTTLE: Yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How many of those are 
holdovers? Are they pleasure or term appointments? 

MS. TUTTLE: They are term appointments. 

We will be having — I don't know, it's either 
two or three expiring in January. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: If you don't do these regs, 



20 

what happens to them? 

MS. TUTTLE: The Board of Forestry has a 
statutory limit on the number of times they can adopt rules, 
which is limited to once per year. So, if the Board doesn't 
meet essentially an October deadline of this year to adopt 
rules, they won't go into effect by January, which means we're 
into the next January. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, what happens? 

MS. TUTTLE: I predict we'll be in court. I 
predict that some of the federal agencies will impose on us 
their own version of regulations. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thanks. 

MS. TUTTLE: And I think it's to our benefit 
to -- 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in support, briefly. 

MR. GARDNER: Yes, Chair and Members of the 
Committee, very briefly. Tom Gardner, President of CDF 
Firefighters, representing 4500 members statewide. 

We strongly support the confirmation of Andrea as 
Director of CDF. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

MR. BROWN: Mr. Chairman, Corey Brown, Trust for 
Public Land. 

Very strong support. Andrea will make an 
excellent Director. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

MS. DINNO: Good morning. Rachel Dinno with the 
Planning and Conservation League in very strong support of the 



21 

confirmation of Ms. Tut tie. 

MS. TERRY: Melinda Terry, California Forestry 
Association. 

We support also. We think Andrea has a great 
understanding of the complexity of the issues and support of the 
continuation as well. 

Thank you. 

MS. SCHMIECHEN: Kathie Schmiechen from the 
National Audubon Society. 

Ms. Tuttle has had a long-standing relationship 
with Audubon, and we urge your support. 

MR. AMARO: Good morning, Senator Burton and 
Members. My name is Allen Amaro. I'm with the DVBE Network of 
Sacramento. I'm also a disabled veteran. 

We are here in support. And we'd also like to 
just briefly state that we have some concerns, even though we 
Do support this nomination, or this confirmation, excuse me, 
with CDF's history and background as it pertains to the DVBE 
program, which is the Disabled Veterans Business Enterprise 
Program. 

I was able yesterday to confirm with Senator 
Hughes' office, Senator Baca's office, and Senator Knight's 
office that we had these measures of concern, and we just 
wanted, for the record, to make sure that the Committee knew, 
because in the past, CDF has had some history of compliance 
problems as far as the Public Contract Code is concerned for 
reports on their outreach and their goal program for disabled 
veterans . 



22 

So, we're here today to put on the record our 
concern that this program is carried out as complied in the law. 
CDF's history of making these reports to the Legislature has 
been haphazard at best. For last three years, they had no 
report, which was part of the Public Contract Code requirement. 

We've had some dialogue with the new 
administration, primarily with Chief Allshouse, and we are 
beginning to break ground and have some dialogue. 

We are here to make sure that we don't go 
backwards in this respect, and that we meet further and continue 
to make the program for disabled veterans in the State of 
California work. 

Any questions? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Where did you get the Flying 
Tiger jacket? 

MR. AMARO: This is Flying Tiger jacket is a 
replica jacket. My wife bought this for me on our 25th 
anniversary. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Who besides Colonel Knight and 
I would have known that? I don't even know if you're old enough 
to know the Flying Tigers. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Oh, yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: A very close personal friend of 
Claire Chennault, this guy right here. 

MR. AMARO: And it does have, in the inside of 
it, Claire Chennault 's signature. My wife — I think that's why 
we have a second mortgage on our house. 

Anyway, it's an official jacket, and I wear it 



23 

with respect to Colonel Chennault. Thank you. 

Any questions? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: He just said it was a great 
John Wayne movie. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'd like to move the nomination 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any opposition? 

Moved/ call the roll. 

MR. SCHMIDT: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

MR. SCHMIDT: Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

MR. SCHMIDT: Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

MR. SCHMIDT: Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

MS. TUTTLE: Thank you very much. 

[Thereupon this portion of the 

Senate Rules Committee hearing was 

terminated at approximately 11:40 A.M.] 
— 00O00 — 



24 
CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 

I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 
/j5 day of ( ^Cu&^S / 1999. 





Shorthands Reporter 



380-R 

Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.00 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 

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1020 N Street, Room B-53 

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^HEARING 

SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



DOCUMENTS DEPT. 
OCT - 4 1999 

SAN FRANCISCO 
PUBLIC LIBRARY 




STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 113 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 18, 1999 
9:06 A.M. 



381 -R 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 113 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 18, 1999 
9:06 A.M. 



Reported by: 



Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 



11 



APPEARANCES 

MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 

SENATOR JOHN LEWIS, Vice Chair 

SENATOR JOE BACA 

SENATOR TERESA HUGHES 

SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

WADE TEASDALE, Consultant to SENATOR LEWIS 

FELICE TANENBAUM, Consultant to SENATOR HUGHES 

CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to SENATOR KNIGHT 

MANNY HERNANDEZ, Consultant to SENATOR BACA 

ALSO PRESENT 

GENEVIEVE A. SHIROMA, Member 
Agricultural Labor Relations Board 

SENATOR DEBORAH ORTIZ 

GLORIA A. BARRIOS, Member 
Agricultural Labor Relations Board 

SENATOR RICHARD POLANCO 

HERBERT "BERT" 0. MASON, Member 
Agricultural Labor Relations Board 

PAUL E. HELLIKER, Director 
Pesticide Regulation 
California Protection Agency 

PETE PRICE 

California League of Conservation Voters 



Ill 



BILL PAUL I 

California Farm Bureau 

AARON READ 

California Association of Professional Scientists 

WESLEY CARR, Treasurer 

California Association of Professional Scientists 

ASSEMBLY MIKE MACHADO 

KENDRA DAIJOGO 

California Association of Winegrape Growers 

California Agricultural Production Consultants Association 



IV 

INDEX 

Page 
Proceedings 1 

Governor ' s Appointees : 

GENEVIEVE A. SHI ROMA, Chair 

Agricultural Labor Relations Board 1 

Background and Experience 1 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Light Workload 2 

Shifting Board's Responsibilities 

To Public Employment Relations Board 3 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Vacant Positions 3 

Statement of Support by 

SENATOR DEBORAH ORTIZ 4 

Motion to Confirm 5 

Committee Action 5 

GLORIA A. BARRIOS, Member 

Agricultural Labor Relations Board 6 

Background and Experience 6 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Vacant Positions 7 

Statement in Support by 

SENATOR RICHARD POLANCO 7 

Motion to Confirm 8 

Committee Action 9 



HERBERT "BERT" 0. MASON, Member 

Agricultural Labor Relations Board 9 

Background and Experience 9 

Motion to Confirm 11 

Committee Action 11 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Status of Watsonville Coastal 

Berry Situation 11 

Response by MS . SHIROMA 12 

PAUL E. HELLIKER, Director 

Department of Pesticide Regulation 

California Environmental Protection Agency 12 

Background and Experience 12 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Increased Use of Hazardous Pesticides 14 

Ways to Take Pesticides Off List 15 

Plans for Monies in Budget Augmentation 16 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Red Imported Fire Ant 16 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Standards the State Should Adopt to 

Protect Infants and Children 17 

Motion to Confirm 18 

Witnesses in Support: 

PETE PRICE 

California League of Conservation Voters 18 

BILL PAUL I 

California Farm Bureau 19 



VI 



AARON READ 

California Association of Professional Scientists .... 19 

WESLEY CARR, Treasurer 

California Association of Professional Scientists .... 20 

ASSEMBLYMAN MIKE MACHADO 2 

KENDRA DIAJOGO 

California Association of Winegrape Growers 
California Agricultural Production Consultants 
Association 20 

Committee Action 21 

Termination of Proceedings 22 

Certificate of Reporter 23 



P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 
— 00O00 — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Governor's appointees, 
Genevieve Shiroma, Chair of the Ag. 

MS. SHIROMA: Good morning. Shall I begin? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Yes, please. 

MS. SHIROMA: Thank you. 

Thank you, Chairman Burton and Members of the 
Rules Committee. I'm honored to be before you today. I am 
respectfully seeking your affirmation of my appointment by the 
Governor on the Agricultural Labor Relations Board. 

I appreciate the opportunity to work on a very 
important law governing labor relations between growers and 
farmworkers. I take very seriously what the statute says. In 
enacting this legislation, the people of California seek to 
ensure peace in the agricultural fields by guaranteeing justice 
for agricultural workers and stability in labor relations. 

As the Chair of the Board, I look forward to 
working with all of the stakeholders to achieve this goal. I 
believe it can be accomplished through fair, consistent, and 
timely decisions by the Board. I firmly embrace my 
responsibilities as a judge and administrator under the Act to 
make those decisions. 

In my career of over 20 years as an engineer and 
branch chief at the Air Board, I developed a keen knowledge of 
government, how to make it work and work efficiently, fairly, 
and with accountability. At the Air Resources Board where I 
spent, again, 20 years, I had the opportunity to work on many 



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programs and many stakeholders, including the agricultural 
community. This is reflected in my support letters. 

My goals are simple. As the Chair of the Board, 
establish a pattern of fair, consistent, and timely decisions, 
hear from all interested parties, including the Legislature, to 
gain insights and understand all viewpoints, assure that 
employers and farmworkers are able to get information on the 
requirements of the Act, and work with my colleagues, the 
General Counsel, and the staff to provide for an efficient and 
credible program. 

As the daughter of a farmworker, I bring my life 
experience to the Board. With over 20 years at the Air 
Resources Board, I bring my career experience and a track record 
for working inclusively, intelligently, fairly. 

I would be honored to have your affirmation of my 
appointment to the Board. I look forward to working with you, 
and would be happy to answer any questions you may have. 

Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Questions, Members of the 
Committee, Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Ms. Shiroma, it appears as though there's an 
extremely light workload concerning the Board. Is the workload, 
does that justify the kind of Board that we're talking about? 

MR. SHIROMA: Yes, sir, I believe it is. I can't 
speak for prior Boards. 

The Act is structured as such that the Board 
reacts to the constituents and to the General Counsel's efforts. 



I can say that in the 90 days that I have been 
Chair, we have had three elections. The Board has deliberated 
on seven orders, and issued seven orders, and we have provided 
for three decisions. 

There are also over 200 charges which the General 
Counsel is assessing. 

So, there is a workload there. We have been 
busy, meeting every week. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Some might suggest that it's of 
such a nature that we could transfer it to the Public Employment 
Relations Board, thereby doing away with one board within the 
state. 

MS. SHIROMA: Ultimately it's you, the 
Legislature, that makes that call. 

However, the Public Employee Relations Board and 
the Agricultural Labor Relations Board provide two separate 
functions. It's public sector versus private sector. 

The Agricultural Labor Relations Act does deal 
with the seasonality of agriculture, the seasonality of workers, 
the fact that produce is vulnerable, perishable. These sorts of 
things are specifically provided for in the Act. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: One quick question, just as a 
follow-up. 

My understanding is that apparently there is a 
lot of vacant positions that are currently right now, and that's 
part of the reason why a lot of the caseloads are not there. 



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Are you aware that there are a lot of 
vacancies currently occurring right now on the regional 
basis for positions? 

MS. SHIROMA: Yeah. As part of my administrative 
hat, I've been meeting with the regions and assessing the 
staffing, the workload, and I'm still in that process of that. 

Yes, there are some vacancies. I'm working with 
the General Counsel towards filling those, and also assessing 
overall the work needs, how we're delivering the program. 

In terms of the overall agency, it is a small 
one. There is a portion where there are some vacancies. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in support. 

Senator Ortiz. 

SENATOR ORTIZ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and 
Members, I will be brief. 

I'm here simply to highly recommend the 
confirmation of Genevieve Shiroma. I have known her over a 
long period of time to be the kind of leader that 
demonstrates the ability to balance the very important 
interests of a very significant industry in our state, as 
well as the interests of workers within the ag. industry. 

She's an engineer by training. She brings that 
often detached and objective perspective that we so admire from 
those of us in the political policy end of this business, and 
the fact that she also brings a personal commitment as the 
daughter of a farmworker, I think, is significant. 

I strongly recommend and request that you confirm 



Ms. Shiroma, and I think that we will all be proud of her. 

SENATOR BACA: Move the nomination, 
Mr. Chairman. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Other witnesses in support? 

The record will reflect that the Ag. Council of 
California, the Farm Bureau Federation, and the Ventura County 
Ag. Association, as well as those representing the workers, are 
in support. 

Anyone in opposition? 

Do you have any family you want to introduce that 



are present? 



Shiroma. 



roll. 



the roll open 



MS. SHIROMA: Yes, my sister is here today, Amy 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Moved by Senator Baca, call the 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. We'll keep 

MS. SHIROMA: Thank you so much. 

[Thereafter, SENATORS LEWIS and 
HUGHES added their Aye votes, 
making the final vote 5-0 for 



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confirmation. ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Gloria Barrios, Member, Ag. 

MS. BARRIOS: Good morning. May I begin? 

Senator Burton, Members of the Committee, I come 
here today to seek your confirmation to be Member of the 
Agricultural Labor Relations Board. 

In 1980, I began my legal career in the Imperial 
Valley working for the Board. I believed then as I believe now 
that the Act is the best vehicle to bring certainty and a sense 
of fair play to labor relations between farmworkers and growers. 

In the few short months since Governor Davis has 
appointed me to the Board, I have met with various 
representatives of the growers, unions, and farmworkers alike in 
order to bring everyone to the table. 

I have been active in the administration of the 
Board's business, and have also participated in the decisions 
and orders of the Board. 

I take my job as an administrator and as a judge 
very seriously. I believe that only the fair and timely 
application of law will ensure that the Board is viewed as a 
credible and respected agency. 

I intend to continue as I have throughout my 
legal career, not only with the ALRB, but with the Department of 
Fair Employment and Housing, and the Office of the Attorney 
General, to view each case on its own merits, review the facts, 
and follow the relevant case law. I intend to be a working 
Board Member who will keep the lines of communication open both 
to members of the public and Members of the Legislature. 



I am proud to have been appointed by the Governor 
for this position. And I thank Members of this Committee for an 
opportunity to address you this morning. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No questions. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: I'll ask the same question of the 
three of you. 

Apparently there seems to be vacant positions at 
the regional offices. Are you aware of the situation, and what 
steps are being taken to correct those steps in filling those 
positions? 

MS. BARRIOS: There are vacant positions at the 
regional office, and there are also vacant positions at the 
Board level. 

We're assessing our needs. For example, we know 
that there's a backlog of compliance cases, and we will need 
people to take care of those cases. 

So, I can see that we will possibly hire in the 
near future, and I also could see that we might set up an 
additional office because right now, the El Centro office 
services all the way to Santa Maria. So, it's possible that a 
satellite office could be put in Santa Maria or in Oxnard. And 
we would need people to man those offices. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in support, Senator 
Polanco . 

SENATOR POLANCO: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, 



8 

1 Members. 

2 I'm here to recommend the confirmation of Gloria 
Barrios, as she brings a tremendous amount of experience, having 

4 been a teacher in her past experience, teaching farmworker 

5 children out of Oxnard, having been an attorney dealing in the 

6 area of labor law and the difficulties in that subject area, 
having distinguished herself as an attorney, arguing cases 

8 before the Department of Fair Employment and Housing. And also, 

9 nine years with the Office of the Attorney General certainly 

10 brings the type of experience, and sensitivity and caring to 

11 this very, very important position. 

12 I'm here to ask your favorable consideration to 

13 an outstanding candidate, Mr. Chairman. 

14 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you, Senator. 

15 Other witnesses in support? 

16 SENATOR BACA: Move the nomination. 

17 CHAIRMAN BURTON: The record will reflect again 

18 the Ag. Council, and the Farm Bureau Federations, as well as the 

19 organizations representing workers. 

2 Do you have any family here you want to 

21 introduce? 

22 MS. BARRIOS: No, I don't, Senator. 

2 3 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Moved by Senator Baca. Call 

24 the roll. 

2 5 SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

2 6 SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

27 SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Knight. 

28 SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 



SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. 

[Thereafter, SENATORS LEWIS and 
HUGHES added their Aye votes, 
making the final vote 5-0 for 
confirmation. ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Leave the roll open. 

Congratulations to you. 

MS. BARRIOS: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Bert Mason, Member of the Ag. 
Labor Relations Board. 

MR. MASON: I would like to thank Chairman Burton 
and his distinguished colleagues on the Rules Committee for 
considering my confirmation as a Member of the Agricultural 
Labor Relations Board. 

As you are well aware, agriculture was excluded 
from the National Labor Relations Act in 1935. It is my view 
that the ALRB fills an important void for workers and employers 
in California's vast agricultural industry. 

I've spent a major part of my professional career 
dealing with agricultural labor matters. I have taught, 
conducted research, and provided educational programs for the 
agricultural community in these areas. 

Throughout these activities, a major theme has 
been trying to convince those involved that people are the most 
important resource in any organization. 

I believe I bring a unique background to the 



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10 

Board. I'm very familiar with agricultural labor issues, and I 
also understand the business of agriculture. I have worked with 
all sides on these often contentious issues, and I believe I 
bring a reputation of objectivity and fairness to the Board. 

With my Board colleagues and the agency's staff, 
I would like help leave a legacy of the Board as an objective 
and efficient organization that interprets the law in a fair and 
timely manner. 

Throughout my career, I have always tried to 
maintain high professional standards, and thereby enhance the 
reputation of the organization that I have represented. I 
believe the continued pursuit of professionalism will result in 
all parties respecting our actions, although by definition all 
parties will not agree with our decisions. 

During the short period that we have been on the 
Board, my colleagues and I have developed a productive working 
relationship. We're all committed to the principles of the Act, 
and we're fully engaged in the operations of the agency. 

As an example of this participation, we have 
traveled to our El Centro and Visalia offices to meet with the 
regional staff and constituent groups, and we plan to visit our 
Salinas office next month. 

I'm honored to have been appointed to the Board 
by Governor Davis, and I hope that you will concur in this 
confirmation process. 

Again, I appreciate your time, and I look forward 
to working with the Legislature in the future. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in support? 



11 

All right, the record will reflect Senator Costa, 
Assemblyman Machado, the Farm Bureau, the Grape and Tree Fruit 
League, and Cal. State University at Fresno. 

Do you have any family here you want to 
introduce? 

MR. MASON: No. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Moved by Senator Baca. Call 
the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. 

[Thereafter, SENATORS LEWIS and 
HUGHES added their Aye votes, 
making the final vote 5-0 for 
confirmation. ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: The roll will be held open. 

Congratulations . 

MR. MASON: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: As a matter of idle curiosity, 
what's going on in the Wastonville Berry deal? 

We wanted to get the confirmation out of the way 
before hand. 

[Laughter . ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Where is it at? I haven't seen 



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12 

anything lately in the paper. 

MS. SHIROMA: A final tally was made yesterday. 
There are over 200 election objections that our Executive 
Secretary is processing. He'll be done within 30 to 45 days, 
and then the matter will come back before the Board. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: The votes have been tallied and 
200 set aside. Nothing's happened yet? 

MS. SHIROMA: We have a tally which shows that 
the Comute has the larger number of votes over the United 
Farmworkers, but there are — due process provides that we look 
at the election objections, of which there are over 200, so we 
have not made a certification at this point, not until we get 
through those election objections. 

SENATOR BACA: Sounds like a fair objective. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Paul Helliker, Director of Pesticide Regulation. 

MR. HELLIKER: Good morning, Mr. Chair and 
Members of the Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to 
come before you this morning to seek your confirmation as 
Director of Pesticide Regulation in the California 
Environmental Protection Agency. 

I bring to this position over 15 years of 
experience in the environmental field, working on water 
pollution, air pollution, international trade, business 
development, at a variety of different levels from the federal 
to the local level. In fact, I think it's this experience that 
was the reason that Secretary Hickox recommended me and the 
Governor appointed me. 



13 

I subscribe fully to the Governor's philosophy 
that we need a balanced approach to environmental issues, one 
that's based on sound science and diligence in carrying out our 
laws and regulations. I believe a clean environment and a 
healthy environment is good not only for Californians, but also 
for the state's businesses. 

I've given you a summary of the goals that I'd 
like to pursue with our Department in the short and long term, 
but let me just highlight a couple this morning. 

I believe most importantly that government 
agencies should be honest, open, and accountable. To that end, 
I take the performance measures that the Legislature has 
established, and take those seriously. In fact, I would like to 
extend them to all of our operations so that we can report to 
you and all of our constituents on our progress. 

We also have the toughest pesticide laws in the 
nation. Our goal will be to enforce those laws resolutely and 
equitably, and to provide a level playing field for California 
businesses. 

We will be working to improve our performance in 
reviewing and registering pesticides in a timely manner, 
particularly those pesticides that are safer alternatives. 

We need to expand our efforts to provide 
incentives and support to developers of lower risk pest control 
techniques so that we can reduce our alliance on the pesticides 
that pose the greatest environmental and health threats. 

We face a variety of other challenges, but I'll 
leave those for future dialogues. 



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14 

In closing, I'd like to reiterate that I'm 
greatly honored that the Governor has asked me to join his team, 
with your support, I look forward to working with you and all of 
our customers for the next three-and-a-half years, and hopefully 
longer, to carry out our goals. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: There have been reports that 
hazardous pesticide use is on the rise. Is the Department 
taking a look at that, and do you have any ideas as to how to 
reduce the use of hazardous ones. And as we continue to 
increase use, what the environmental, and equally as important 
if not more, the health consequences of increased use of 
hazardous pesticides? 

MR. HELLIKER: That's a significant issue 
for us, Mr. Chairman, and let me point out a couple of 
programs that we have that the Legislature has been very 
helpful in supporting us with. The first is the Pest 
Management Alliance Program, where we have a million 
dollars every year to provide grants to organizations to 
help develop alternatives. And we've had that program in 
place now for two years, and we're getting ready to issue 
the next round. 

We have had some success so far in a variety of 
difficult crops, and we look forward to expanding those 
alternatives from those crops to a variety of different 
other applications in California. So, that's the carrot 
program. 

We also have been successful in achieving 
some additional support for our registration program. As 



15 

you may know, the backlog is significant, but our target 
now with the new resources is to focus on those pesticides 
that are the lower risk pesticides so that we can get those 
through the system faster and have them available for 
growers that want to use those lower risk pesticides. 

I think if you look at the data that we've 
collected through our Pesticide Use Program, which, by the way, 
is the only one in the country that is quite as extensive as our 
reporting system, that there are some trends that we can 
identify now. There are certain categories of pesticides that 
are going down that fall into those categories, mainly because 
of the alternatives that are coming into the market. We hope to 
see that continue in the future. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How would a pesticide be taken 
off? How would a pesticide, if it's found to be hazardous, be 
taken off? 

MR. HELLIKER: In the 1980s, the Legislature 
passed the Birth Defects Prevention Act. Through that process, 
we do a more extensive risk assessment for the pesticides that 
are the highest priority. There was a list of 200 at that 
point. We still have about 145 or so pesticides on that list. 

As we go through the process of looking at what 
are human health impacts and the environmental impacts, if we 
find that we can't mitigate them through better worker 
protection or certain restrictions on pesticides, we will take 
those products off the market. 

A recent example is DDBP, which is the pesticide 
that's used in the No Pest Strips. Because of the risk that 



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16 

that pesticide posed, particularly to children, we've recently 
announced that that product will be taken off the market. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What are your plans for the 
additional 800 million that was given the Department in the 
budget? 

MR. HELLIKER: The eight hundred thousand? I 
wish it were 800 million. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Don't we all. 

MR. HELLIKER: I think you're referring to — 
that particular item, Mr. Chair, is the funding that was given 
to augment our registration program, which I've mentioned. 

We've started to hire those positions. We've 
reorganized that branch so that we can target those positions to 
meet the budget control language requirements and expedite the 
registration of lower risk pesticides. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Question, Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: You spent the last couple years 
in the State of Texas? 

MR. HELLIKER: I sure did. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Just a question, in Texas, 
they've got a problem, as many southern states do, with the Red 
Imported Fire Ant. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: It's a thing of no consequence. 
[Laughter. ] 

MR. HELLIKER: Unless you're on a picnic. 

SENATOR LEWIS: As you probably know, we've had a 
very large infestation in Orange County, and now spreading into 
Riverside, L.A., and San Diego as well. 



17 

In the State of Texas, there are several 
pesticides that are used to alleviate the infestation which are 
not on the list for use in California. 

What's your thought about that? 

MR. HELLIKER: My understanding is that we've 
been working very closely with the Department of Food and 
Agriculture here, who the Governor has designated as the lead 
for this particular problem, and that they have a whole range of 
tools that are used both in Texas as well as here to help combat 
the problem. 

Whenever we and the Department of Food and 
Agriculture identify an additional pesticide that we think would 
be effective, we work with EPA to expedite that through what's 
known as the Section 18, which is a temporary exception to the 
registration process. 

I believe that all of the pesticides that the 
Department of Food and Agriculture and we have identified as 
important to combat this problem have been registered, or gone 
through that Section 18 process. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: One quick question. 

Protecting infants and children, do you have any 
ideas in terms of what standards the state should adopt to 
protect infants and children? Do you have any idea, Paul? 

MR. HELLIKER: Yes, sir. 

In 1993, the National Academy of Sciences came 
out with a report that identified the fact that we need to be 



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more concerned about protecting infants and children. 

Our whole regulatory program looks at risks to 
the whole range of different populations that are out there. 
And in fact, we look at infants and children as a specific 
sub-population. And where we can identify that we need to be 
protective, we will set our standards accordingly. We've done 
that for a couple of different pesticides recently. 

So, I think that we have a good program there. 
In fact, we're considered to be a model in the nation for 
protecting infants and children. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

Move the nomination. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in support? 

MR. PRICE: Mr. Chair, Members, Pete Price, 
representing the California League of Conservation Voters. 

We ' re happy to be here today to support Paul 
Helliker's nomination to be the Director of DPR. 

We think that this is inherently one of the most 
difficult jobs in state government, frankly, because at bottom, 
we're sanctioning the legal application of toxic materials to 
food, soil, in the water, and in the air. So, it's inherently 
controversial . 

We're impressed by Paul's background. He has a 
great deal of experience, both in government and the private 
sector on air quality and water quality issues. Comes to 
pesticides with kind of a clean slate, and frankly, I think a 
lot of people might think that's maybe the best way to go at 
this point, someone who has a background in the issues they're 



19 

dealing with, but comes in without a lot of baggage. 

I appreciate some of the comments or 
questions that were asked, because those are some of the 
issues we are concerned about: children's health; this 
concern about data showing that some of the most dangerous, 
cancer-causing pesticides are increasing in use at the 
highest rate. 

We and other organizations have had meetings with 
Mr. Helliker and his team in the last few months, and they've 
been good meetings. We've been favorably impressed. I think 
it's going to be an open operation, and that's all we're looking 
for. 

So, based on his experience and what's happened 
to date, we support it and look forward to working with him. 

Thank you. 

MR. PAULI: Mr. Chairman, Bill Pauli on behalf 
of the California Farm Bureau and our members, we'd like to 
endorse the appointment of Paul Helliker. We've gotten to know 
him over a period of time, and we actively and strongly support 
his confirmation. 

Thank you. 

MR. READ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members. 
Aaron Read, and I'm here representing the California Association 
of Professional Scientists, whom I've represented for 20 years 
now. And I'm happy to have our statewide Legislative Chairman 
with us, Mr. Wes Carr, who is an employee of the Department. 
He'd like to make just a very brief comment. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Just so you know, we knew who 



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he represented. 

MR. CARR: Okay, great. 

Good morning, Chairman Burton, Committee Members. 

It's with real pleasure I'm here to support the 
confirmation of Director Helliker. As Aaron said, I'm a 
scientist within the Department, and I also am the Treasurer for 
the California Association of Professional Scientists. 

I've had the opportunity to meet with 
Mr. Helliker and discuss scientific issues. And his paper that 
he provided to you that outlines some of the goals, short-term 
and long-term, emphasize best available science, and working 
using scientific principles to protect the people and the 
environment of California, which we think is a very important 
thing, and we're honored to be part of that process. 

Thank you very much. 

ASSEMBLYMAN MACHADO: Assemblyman Mike Machado. 
I want to speak on behalf of the nomination of Paul Helliker. 

I endorse that. Paul brings an understanding of 
the industry, both agriculture and otherwise, as well as the 
need to provide the protection for the consumers and citizens of 
California. With his background, I think he'll be a great asset 
to bring a balance to this very important issues. 

I also want to thank the Committee for their 
support of Bert Mason, who I think will do a splendid job on the 
Ag. Labor Relations Board. 

MS. DAIJOGO: Mr. Chairman and Members, Kendra 
Daijogo with the Gualco Group, representing the California 
Agricultural Production Consultants Association, and they 



21 

represent the state licensed pest control advisors, and 
also the California Association of Winegrape Growers in 
strong support of the confirmation of Director Helliker. 

Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any family here? 

MR. HELLIKER: Yes, Senator. I have my fiancee 
whom I brought back with me from Texas, Patrice Parsons. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What is your view on the fire 
ants? 

MS. PARSONS: I hate fire ants. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Lewis moves. 
[Laughter. ] 

MR. HELLIKER: Let me point out that she used to 
raise guinea hens, which is our effective biological control 
technique. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. 

[Thereafter, SENATOR HUGHES 
added her Aye vote, making the 
final vote 5-0 for confirmation.] 



22 



1 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. 

2 MR. HELLIKER: Thank you. 

3 SENATOR LEWIS: I would like to be added to the 

4 prior roll calls as well. 

5 [Thereupon this portion of the 

6 Senate Rules Committee hearing was 

terminated at approximately 9:36 A.M.] 

8 — ooOoo — 



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CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 

I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 



u IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 





day of yt*A^g4^r , 1999. 




VELYN J*/MIZA)< 
Shorthand Reporter 



381 -R 

Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.00 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 

Senate Publications 

1020 N Street, Room B-53 

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Make checks payable to SENATE RULES COMMITTEE. 
Please include Stock Number 381 -R when ordering. 






BEARING 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



DOCUMENTS DEPT. 

OCT - h 1999 

SAN FRANCISCO 
PUBLIC LIBRARY 




STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 112 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 25, 1999 
8:00 A.M. 



382-R 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 112 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



WEDNESDAY , AUGUST 25, -1999 
8:00 A.M. 



Reported by 



Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 



11 



APPEARANCES 

MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 

SENATOR JOHN LEWIS, Vice Chair 

SENATOR JOE BACA 

SENATOR TERESA HUGHES 

SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

STAFF PRESENT . 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

WADE TEASDALE, Consultant to SENATOR LEWIS 

FELICE TANENBAUM, Consultant to SENATOR HUGHES 

CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to SENATOR KNIGHT 

MANNY HERNANDEZ, Consultant to SENATOR BACA 

ALSO PRESENT 

MARIAN BERGESON, Member 
State Board of Education 

SENATOR DEDE ALPERT 

SENATOR ROSS JOHNSON 

GARY HART, Secretary of Education 

DENNIS MEYERS 

Association of California School Administrators 

HENRY L. ALDER 

University of California, Davis 

LESLIE PETERSON SCHWARZE, Parent 
Novato 



Ill 



MIKE WEIMER 

California Federation of Teachers 

DIANE CHIN 

Coalition for Civil Rights 

MARY HERNANDEZ, Vice President 

San Francisco Board of Education 

Past President, Hispanic National Bar Association 

ARCELIA PATRON, Parent 

San Jose Unified School District 

MIGUEL GARIBAY, Translator 
El Pueblo de San Jose CABE 

RICHARD ESQUIVEL 

JFK Mecha Parents Advisory Committee 

ROSIE ORTIZ, Parent 
San Jose 

MARTHA DIAZ 

Californians Together for a Quality Education 

California Association for Bilingual Education (CABE) 

ELIZABETH E. GUILLEN 

Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF) 

CARLOS MUNOZ 

Comite pro Educacion, Pittsburg 

ANGIE WEI, Board of Director 

Chinese for Affirmative Action, San Francisco 

LORI SANTOS, President 

National Coalition for Better Education 

DEBORAH ESCOBEDO, Attorney 

Multicultural Education, Training and Advocacy (META) 

LEOBARDO ZAMORA, Parent 
Pro Education Committee 

BENJAMIN LOPEZ 

California Rural Legal Assistance Foundation 



IV 



SUSAN W. HAMMER, Member 
State Board of Education 

CARLTON J. JENKINS, Member 
State Board of Education 

MONICA LOZANO, Member 
State Board of Education 

VICKI L. REYNOLDS, Member 
State Board of Education 



V 

INDEX 

Page 
Proceedings 1 

Governor ' s Appointees : 

MARIAN BERGESON, Member 

State Board of Education 1 

Introduction and Support by 

SENATOR DEDE ALPERT 1 

Statement in Support by 

SENATOR ROSS JOHNSON 3 

Background and Experience 3 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

First Teaching Assignment 9 

Position on Collective Bargaining 10 

Family Leave and Minimum Wage 10 

Contracting Out 11 

Binding Arbitration 11 

Teacher In-service Days 12 

Position on Proposition 209 12 

Position on Proposition 187 13 

Position on Proposition 98 13 

Position on Proposition 227 13 

Position on Scholarship Opportunity 

Program 14 



VI 



Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Amusement at Being Portrayed as Right 

Wing Zealot 15 

Process Used to Develop Matrix Test 15 

Need for Both STAR and Matrix Test 16 

Aided Gathering Support for Bills that 

Would Benefit Bilingual School Children 16 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Accountability as Board Member 17 

Goal of Establishing English Learner 

Advisory Committee on Board 19 

Request for Board Briefings on Various 

Programs and Services 2 

Knowledge of Bilingual Education 21 

Position on Vouchers 21 

High Dropout Rate 22 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Vote to Revise Title 5 Regulations 

Concerning English Language Learners 23 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Reason for Vote on Title 5 Regs 24 

Teacher Guides to Classify Students 26 

Actions Taken to Protect Quality of 

Education in Charter Schools 26 

Binding Arbitration and Charter Schools 27 



Vll 



Witnesses in Support: 

GARY HART . . 
Secretary for Education 27 

DENNIS MEYERS 

Association of California School Administrators 30 

HENRY ALDER, Professor of Mathematics 

UC Davis 

Former Member, State Board of Education 31 

LESLIE SCHWARZE, Parent 

Novato 33 

Witnesses in Opposition: 

MIKE WEIMER 

California Federation of Teachers 35 

DIANE CHIN 

Coalition for Civil Rights 36 

MARY HERNANDEZ, Vice President 

San Francisco Board of Education 

Past President, Hispanic National 

Bar Association 39 

MIGUEL GARIBAY, Interpretor 

El Pueblo de San Jose CABE 43 

ARCELIA PATRON, Parent 

San Jose Unified School District 43 

RICH ESQUIVEL, Volunteer 

Sacramento City School District 

Elk Grove School District 44 

ROSIE ORTIZ, President 

City Council of Washington School 

San Francisco School District 47 

MARTHA DIAZ 

California Association for Bilingual Education 

Californians Together for a Quality Education 48 



Vlll 



ELIZABETH GUILLEN 

Mexican American Legal Defense and 

Educational Fund 49 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

MALDEF's Position on Congressional 
Candidates Who Oppose Gay Rights 
Legislation 50 

CARLOS MUNOZ 

Comite pro Educacion, Pittsburgh 51 

ANGIE WEI 

Board of Directors for Chinese Affirmative 

Action in San Francisco 53 

LORI SANTOS, President 

National Coalition for Better Education . 53 

DEBORAH ESCOBEDO, Attorney 

Multicultural Education, Training and Advocacy 

Parents for Unity, Los Angeles 54 

LEOBARDO ZAMORA, Parent 

Pittsburgh Unified School District 56 

BEN LOPEZ 

California Rural Legal Assistance 57 

Statements by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Request to SECRETARY HART that Governor 

Meet with Hispanic Community Leaders 58 

Response to Opposition by MS. BERGESON 58 

Request from CHAIRMAN BURTON that Board Be 

Made Aware of Feelings and Comments Expressed 59 

Motion to Confirm 60 

Statement by SENATOR BACA re: 

Reasons for Voting No 60 

Committee Action 60 



IX 



SUSAN W. HAMMER, Member ■ 

State Board of Education 61 

Background and Experience 61 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Leadership on Board to Lower 

Dropout Rate 63 

Board's Role in Safe Schools and 

Prevention of Hate Crimes 64 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Recommendations to Lower Dropout Rate 66 

Need for Various Assessment Tests to 

Work Together 67 

Motion to Confirm .67 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Position as CEO of Synopsis Corporation 67 

Potential for Conflict of Interest 69 

Committee Action 70 

CARLTON J. JENKINS, Member 

State Board of Education 7 

Background and Experience 70 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Conflict between State Board and 

State Superintendent of Public 

Instruction 73 

Position on Voucher System 74 

Leadership for Bilingual Education 75 

STAR Test, and Utilization of Test as 
Instructional Tool 76 



Motion to Confirm 77 

Committee Action 77 

MONICA LOZANO, Member 

State Board of Education 78 

Background and Experience 78 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Encouraging Parental Involvement 82 

Suggestions for Making Non-English 
Speaking Parents Feel at Ease When 
Testifying before Board 84 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Addressing High Dropout Rate 85 

Motion to Confirm 87 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Anticipated Increase in Dropout Rate 87 

Response by CHAIRMAN BURTON 87 

Committee Action 88 

VICKI L. REYNOLDS, Member 

State Board of Education 88 

Background and Experience 88 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Aid in Helping Successful Schools Share 
Knowledge with Poorest Schools 90 

Support for MS. BERGESON's Stated 

Goals and Objectives 91 

Position on Vouchers 91 



XI 



Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Timeline for Development of English . . 
Learner Test 92 

Motion to Confirm 92 

Committee Action 93 

Termination of Proceedings 93 

Certificate of Reporter 94 



P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 
— 00O00 — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Governor's appointees appearing 
today, Marian Bergeson, State Board of Education. 

SENATOR ALPERT: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. 

I'm Senator Dede Alpert. I'm here to introduce 
Marian Bergeson. I'm very delighted, as the Chair of the 
Education Committee, to be able to do this. 

I think because all of you know her and most of 
you served with her in the Legislature, I just wanted to say 
three things in the introduction, three reasons why I believe 
you should confirm Marian. 

The first one is her knowledge of education 
issues. Marian has a long history of working on education 
issues, starting on locally as a mother, as a teacher, as school 
board member, eventually as the President of the California 
School Boards Association here in this state. 

After she was elected to the Legislature, she 
served in the Assembly on the Education Committee, in the Senate 
on the Education Committee, and in both Houses she served on the 
Budget Finance Committee on Education as well. She's extremely 
knowledgeable, has spent years learning about education 
issues. And then in the '90s, as you are aware, under 
then-Governor Wilson, she was the Secretary of Education. So, 
she was the educational leader for this state. 

The second reason that I believe she should be 
confirmed is that all of us, I think, want to be judged by our 
entire record. We all, as politicians, have faced political 



campaigns where someone pulls one vote out of the thousands or 
hundreds of thousands that we have cast, and paints us in a 
light that sometimes we believe is unfair. 

And I think that if you honestly look at Marian 
Bergeson's entire record as a public servant, she is really an 
example to all of us. 

Now, I'm a Democrat from San Diego, and she's a 
Republican from Orange County. We do not vote and did not 
vote the same way on many, many issues, but she is a person who 
lived up to her duty, representing her area of the state. 

She is bright and honorable, and has, as I say, 
been, I think, the best example we could have of a public 
servant . 

And finally, I think, and the most important 
reason, is that Marian has shown herself to be an independent 
thinker. She has been accessible to people. She has been 
willing to listen to various points of view. 

And when we look at what I consider some of the 
most important moral issues that we have had to deal with as a 
state, when we look at the voucher initiative, and when we look 
at Proposition 187, Marian stood up to the leaders of her own 
party, to probably many of the people who have supported her all 
of her life, and took what she believed was the right and 
correct stand and went against the popular opinion in her 
party. That takes, to me, a tremendous amount of courage. 

All of Marian's adult life has been working in 
the best interest of children. As I say, while she and I may 
disagree on specific issues or specific votes, I know that 



having Marian serve on the State Board of Education means that 
we have a person who cares about the education of all children. 
And I don't think we could ask for anything more in someone that 
we want to appoint to the State Board of Education. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Johnson. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you very much, 
Mr. Chairman and Members. 

I just want to weigh in very briefly and say that 
I have known Marian Bergeson for nearly 25 years, and I want to 
echo the comments of my colleague, Dede Alpert. There is no one 
that I have known in that period of time that is more interested 
and dedicated to helping children and providing quality 
education. 

There are, obviously, times when there are 
differences over specific policy recommendations. But what we 
need more than anything is people of integrity, intelligence, 
dedication, and people who care about the quality of education 
that kids receive. 

So, I just want to weigh in very, very forcefully 
in support of Marian Bergeson. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thanks, Senator. 

Senator Bergeson. 

MS. BERGESON: Mr. Chairman, Members of the 
Committee, first I would like very much to thank Senator Alpert 
and Senator Johnson for their very gracious remarks, and indeed, 
we are most fortunate to have the leadership that they offer as 
well . 



And to each of you, my gratitude for the work 
that you conduct on behalf of the state. 

I consider myself very fortunate in having the 
opportunity to continue on the State Board of Education to fill 
the term, the unexpired term, of a previous Board Member, a term 
that will go until January of 2001. 

It has been a pleasure for me to work with the 
Board. I will tell you that the Members of this Board of 
Education are a group of the most intelligent, knowledgeable, 
quick learners of any that I have ever had the privilege of 
serving with. 

It's a very difficult chore. The Board of 
Education undertakes many, many complicated and very technical 
issues that requires that expertise, and I feel indeed fortunate 
that I have been given the opportunity, and Governor Davis 
graciously allowing me to continue until the completion of this 
term, pending confirmation. 

I'd like to focus just a little bit on how my 
interest in education was stimulated initially. I began back in 
the '50s, and I was teaching at that time, where I was offered 
an opportunity to teach in an all minority school. And this was 
in Santa Monica. And the school that I was offered was a very 
difficult teaching assignment. It was a fourth grade class, and 
I remember the principal admonished me to be certain that the 
kids stayed in their seats, and if they learned to sing and 
dance, that that was probably the most important thing that they 
could accomplish. 

I was deeply offended by this, and so my effort 



when I took on that assignment was to prove that they were 
wrong, that the expectations could be placed, that kids could 
learn. I initiated a science class that I thought — it was 
during the era of Sputnik. Many of you weren't around then, but 
at that time there was a great deal of focus on science, 
because, frankly, we were embarrassed that we were behind the 
gun. 

Surprisingly, these kids learned. They enjoyed 
it. I didn't wait for the parents to come to the school; I went 
to the parents because oftentimes it was difficult to bring them 
in and to get them focused on what was going on in the 
classroom. 

But you know, the points that I learned, and I 
learned more from that teaching experience than I could ever 
have learned from books or even from other people without 
actually going through it, but they apply even today. And that 
is that you raise the expectations that you can receive from 
kids; you give them the love and the encouragement and support. 
And you must have principals that are there to support and to 
assure that they're going to be given the environment to make it 
happen, and parents. 

And parents must be involved, and they must 
understand what their children are doing. And they want to also 
raise those expectations and give them the hope that the future 
is bright, indeed, for each one of them. 

It's been really a very, very, I think, the most 
important part of my life, is being able to share one of the 
most exciting times in education. And that is, as we look at 



the major structural changes that are taking place, we know that 
we have to bring our schools up to the point where they should 
be, and that is all schools throughout California. We have 
undergone some massive changes, the class size reduction, and 
that's to focus on certain skills being mastered — basic math, 
reading -- to be assured that kids are going to go on into their 
upper grades, knowing full well how to read, how to compute, so 
they can be successful. 

These new rigorous standards have been developed 
by some of the greatest minds, not only in the nation but also 
worldwide. They've been developed by knowledgeable, by 
extremely intelligent educators, mathematicians and scientists. 
We have those standards now. We're developing the curriculum, 
the framework, to be able to match those standards. And the 
all-important task which we have much to do, and that is the 
teacher training and retraining to be certain that they can take 
these materials, give them to the children in a way that they're 
going to be able to learn and retain them. 

We are currently undertaking the effort of 
accountability, and that is with Senator Alpert ' s bill, SB IX. 
The Board does much in furthering the legislative efforts and 
implementation, setting up the regulations. It's an awesome 
task, as we look at deadlines, sometimes, that are hard to 
realize. But we know that whatever we're doing is building the 
momentum for all of our kids. 

And with accountability, I think it's important 
that we stress, we are not to punish honest efforts, but we are 
to assure that all children are going to learn, and they're 



going to improve. We need to provide that remediation, the 
community support that is going to give the reinforcement and 
give the backing, and the understanding that kids are going to 
be able to achieve. 

True reform must empower underachieving schools 
to adopt all of the best practices of the state's very best 
schools. We have to assure that every school has the 
resources, and, I might add, those resources be that they all 
have opportunities for advanced placement, that they have the 
SAT preparation courses that we have in our very finest schools, 
and we want to make certain that every child is given the access 
to opportunity and to succeed. 

This takes strong leadership. It takes strong 
leadership at the site level, and we need to have incentives for 
schools to provide effective long-term strategies and 
methodologies that are going to raise student achievement. Of 
course, we need to have the well-trained teachers and the 
administrators to do the job. 

Now, along with this, we need to have an 
assessment tool that is going to be reliable and that is going 
to have the concentrated effort. The Board, the Superintendent, 
the Legislature, the Governor, the Department, all of us working 
together to make certain that we can accomplish this. It has 
been to be a line to our new state — or our new class academic 
standards . 

And I would tell you that after 50 years in 
education, that I look forward to learning things every day. I 
found as I attended a Career Day in Santa Ana in a middle 



8 

school, and I realized how these kids are challenged just to get 
to their seats everyday, a tremendous job. And they oftentimes 
don't have the support, the educational back-up support that 
they need. And yet, looking at those classes, and how they are 
inspired through mentors and teachers who really care and are 
making a difference. 

I serve on the Board of Directors of the 
Orangewood Child Abuse and Intervention Center of the which the 
same thing. You visit the people that are visiting and working 
with these kids, giving them hope for the future, and I think 
that's where our solutions truly lie, and that is because people 
care, and they're willing to put the time and the effort to make 
things happen. 

We need the inspiration, the motivation. We need 
to make certain that every child is given a loving environment 
to be able to go forward and succeed. 

Now, as my commitment to the Board, and I would 
say that as Senator Alpert indicated, I have worked with most of 
you for at least 20 years, in some cases. Senator Hughes and I 
go back a long, long way, and have worked on education issues 
over the years. 

Of course, to all of you, it has been truly a 
wonderful experience at being able to have served in both Houses 
of the Legislature. And I think you know to be a team player, I 
have always worked to build consensus, and I have, frankly, 
enjoyed the challenge of bringing divergent views to focus. And 
when I disagree, sometimes I even break ranks with my party, as 
I'm sure Senator Lewis could attest to, that I have a streak of 



independence because I believe that whatever I do has to be in 
the best interest of kids. 

But I am confident that we are on the right 
course, that with the reforms that were initiated under the 
Wilson administration and now continuing with the Davis 
administration, these changes are going to make a difference. 
And I have full confidence that with the Board, and certainly 
with the Board as we are now working, that we have a tremendous 
challenge ahead of us, and I hope that with your support, I can 
continue to work in this all-important work. I think it will 
bring great credit to the State of California. 

I thank you for the opportunity to be before you, 
and look forward to questions. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. 

Marian, thank you very much for coming before us. 
I appreciate the fact that you've indicated that we have the 
best interests every children at heart, and I think that's what 
all of us have in any kind of a representative that we want to 
continue to serve on the Board. 

I want to start off with the statement that 
you've indicated. You indicated that you started teaching back 
in 1950; is that correct? 

MS. BERGESON: That's correct. 

SENATOR BACA: And one of the statements that you 
indicated, suprisingly the kids learned. 

Did you have a low esteem of the kids? Why was 
that statement made? 



10 

MS. BERGESON: The statement came about as a 
result of what the principal had indicated to me when I was 
hired for the job. And the admonition was that the most 
important thing was that the kids conform, that they be in their 
seats, and that they were probably pretty good at singing and 
dancing, and that academic expectations were not there. That 
offended me. 

SENATOR BACA: I just wanted to make sure that it 
Wasn't a stereotype based on minorities and others, that you had 
low esteem in terms of their ability to learn, because we want 
all children to learn and all children to have access. 

MS. BERGESON: I certainly agree with that. 

SENATOR BACA: Let me ask you a couple of other 
questions in reference to labor issues. 

What is your position on collective bargaining? 

MS. BERGESON: I have always respected the law in 
collective bargaining. I was in the original development of the 
*odda bill, 160. As President of the California School Boards 
Association, we negotiated in the development of that 
legislation. 

SENATOR BACA: What about family leaves and 
ninimum wages that pertain to collective bargaining? What have 
/our stands been in those areas? 

MS. BERGESON: There have been some bills I've 
upported and some that I have not. 

SENATOR BACA: I have a list of a couple that you 
lid not, and you opposed, like, I guess, AB 368, the Moore bill; 
\B 11, which is another Moore bill that dealt with family leave. 



11 

Then there were some other bills that you opposed, SB 1658, 
Torres bill. 

And then in 1987, you opposed increasing the 
minimum wages in that area. 

So, apparently you were against some of those 
collective bargaining bills that even dealt with minimum wages. 

MS. BERGESON: I think each of those bills « 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: For the record, I don't think 
any school teachers are paid below the minimum wage. Its 
relation to minimum wage — 

SENATOR BACA: It could have been for classified 
employees . 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I don't think classified 
employees are paid below the minimum wage. 

I think the bills were minimum wage bills dealing 
with the minimum wage; not dealing with education. That's all. 

SENATOR BACA: Then I will go on, thank you. 

Do you support contracting out of public employee 
jobs? 

MS. BERGESON: I have carried legislation in 
allowing for contracting out. I believe in effective and cost 
effective delivery of services, and where ever they can be 
conducted most effectively, whether they be private or public, I 
think that the public's interest is served by the effective 
delivery of those services. 

SENATOR BACA: What is your position on binding 
arbitration of discipline? 

MS. BERGESON: As a local government official, I 



12 

have not supported binding arbitration for public employees. 

I have supported binding arbitration in the 
private sector and for other issues that I think arbitration is 
a reasonable solution. 

SENATOR BACA: What is your position on teacher 
in-service day and classified school employees? 

MS. BERGESON: That becomes a budget issue. I 
think it's dealt with. It would depend entirely on what the 
budget situation was within that school. 

SENATOR BACA: What is your position on 
affirmative action, or Proposition 209? 

MS. BERGESON: I supported 209. I think it 
placed the burden clearly where it should be, and that is on 
K-12. I am a strong believer, and have seen some positive 
results in the way of outreach, where we have our agencies 
working together to provide outreach for young people. 
Providing for an influence and a motivation towards higher 
education. 

Again, as I stated in my opening remarks, I think 
we need to have SAT training development at all of our schools. 
And mentoring, tutoring, those programs, I think, we will see a 
great deal of equity provided just by giving the opportunity to 
our young students in the K through 12. 

SENATOR BACA: Yet we've seen that the effects 
even of Prop. 209 now, that many students are not getting into 
our institutions. We believe it starts at the K through 12, 
that's part of the responsibility, not only in reference to the 
training academically, preparation or others, but the ability to 



13 

have accessibility is very important in that area. 

What was your position, I heard Dede Alpert 
indicate, but I'd like to hear your position on Proposition 187. 
What was your position on 187? 

MS. BERGESON: My position is that children are 
here, they should be in school. 

SENATOR BACA: What was your position on 
Proposition 98, the initiative to guarantee funding for 
education? 

MS. BERGESON: I had concerns initially about 
Proposition 98, because I feared that it would become a minimum 
rather than — it would become a maximum rather than a floor — 
a floor rather than a maximum. And some concerns about what 
would happen to higher education. 

I have supported Proposition 98 as it was enacted 
by the people. In fact, under the administration of Governor 
Wilson, we exceeded the 98 provision in both years where there 
was budget surplus. That money was dedicated to education. 

SENATOR BACA: But originally you opposed 
Proposition 98? 

MS. BERGESON: I indicated concerns over 
Proposition 98 because I felt that it could very well be 
restrictive.. 

SENATOR BACA: What was your position on 
Proposition 227, that measured the effectiveness in the 
bilingual education in California. 

MS. BERGESON: I did not support 227. 

SENATOR BACA: And in reference to, I appreciate 



14 

the fact that you took a stand in reference to the voucher 
system, but what was your position on the Scholarship 
Opportunity Program? 

MS. BERGESON: I don't believe — I should say I 
do believe that every child has a right to a decent education. 
Every school should be given an opportunity to improve. And in 
the event that improvement is not provided, children should not 
be trapped in schools that simply do not perform for their 
benefits . 

I feel that the stimulation and the competition 
of Opportunity Scholarships would allow public schools to become 
setter. 

I opposed the Voucher Initiative, which, I 
Delieve, was 174. 

SENATOR BACA: Wasn't the Scholarship Opportunity 
similar to voucher system but another way of funding private 
schools or getting students into private schools? 

MS. BERGESON: My intent has always been to make 
Dublic schools better. The competition, I do believe, makes 
them better. 

SENATOR BACA: That's it at this point. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Good morning. 

MS. BERGESON: Good morning. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Bergeson, in 1991, you 
received the California School Boards Association State Senator 
Df the Year Award. In 1987, you were named Legislator of the 
fear by the League of California Cities, and Woman of the Year 



15 

by the Anti-defamation League of the B'Nai Brith. 

We certainly know each other on a personal and a 
professional level, working together both in Sacramento and 
Orange County. But it also is interesting that over years, you 
and I have had our differences. 

In fact, there have been any number, for example, 
of political campaigns in Orange County where I have perhaps 
supported the conservative Republican candidate, and perhaps 
you've supported someone a little more moderate. That still 
goes on today, I might add. 

Do you find it as amusing as I do that there have 
been people in these last few weeks trying to portray you as a 
right-wing zealot? 

MS. BERGESON: I'm sure many that of my 
colleagues in the Legislature would find that somewhat amusing. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I just wanted to ask you a little 
ait about school testing. We have the STAR test, the matrix 
test which is underway right now. 

Can you describe, perhaps, the process right now 
that's being utilized to develop the matrix test? 

MS. BERGESON: The development of the matrix 
test? Currently the Board has approved an RFP for the 
development of the matrix test. The matrix test is a test that 
is a sampling. It's not any individual test, but it tests the 
iepth of the curriculum. In other words, how well are students 
Derforming against the California state standards. 

That test along with the STAR test, which 
eventually will be completely aligned to the state standards, 



16 

the augmentation part of it this year was, will then form the 
accountability index that would then judge how well our students 
are performing. That, of course, is one of the major components 
of our package on accountability. That assessment will give us 
a very fair and an accurate index as to how well our students 
will be accomplishing our goal, working towards excellence in 
our standards. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I certainly believe that testing 
is an incredibly important component of our educational system. 

Do we need, however, both the STAR test and the 
matrix test? Would there be some way of combining them to 
create some better efficiency? 

MS. BERGESON: That was the wish of the 
Legislature, and the State Board of Education is following 
through the dictates of the legislation. And that was developed 
through the legislative process as far as how that measure would 
be developed, or what would be within that accountability index. 
So, that was, I think, part of the total package that was, 
again, the legislative purview. 

SENATOR LEWIS: One of your responsibilities is 
to identify legislative proposals for possible Board support. 

MS. BERGESON: I'm sorry? 

SENATOR LEWIS: One of your responsibilities, as 
I understand it, is to identify legislation for possible Board 
support . 

Is it true that you helped gather support for 
bills benefitting bilingual school children, like AB 56 by 
Assemblywoman Mazzoni, Senate Bill 395 by Senator Hughes, 638 by 



17 

Senator Alpert? 

MS. BERGESON: It's hard for me to remember each 
of those, but yes, the latter ones, yes, very definitely we were 
very much involved in the development of that legislation, 
particularly 638. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you, Marian. Very good 
seeing you again. 

I'm happy to tell you and the Members of this 
audience, I was around with Sputnik, too, just like you were. 
You know, you're happy if you get to live that long. 

The other thing, I know your background, but as 
you follow through these various roles, you were President of 
the CSBA, you were a State Legislature in the Assembly and the 
Senate, and a County Supervisor, then Secretary of Education. 
All of these various roles you had different people that you had 
to be accountable to. 

How did you juggle these roles? How did you feel 
you should have been accountable? To whom should you have been 
accountable when you were President of the School Board, when 
you were a State Legislature, when you were County Supervisor, 
and then when you were Secretary of Education? 

MS. BERGESON: Well, I think the level of 
responsibility that you assume, you are accountable for 
reporting to that particular constituency. 

I might add an example. I had a rather strange 
Senate district at one time. It went from the 



18 

Mexican-California border to the Los Angeles County line. And 
at that time I represented Imperial County, Riverside, San 
Diego, and Orange Counties. And it was a microcosm of the 
state . 

But I think representation within that area, that 
I never had any complaints from any part of that district, that 
I felt that I spent the time and the effort, and I really didn't 
find it a conflict as such. I probably spent more time per se 
in Imperial County simply because the needs were greater, the 
need for government services were greater there than perhaps 
many of the sections within Orange County. 

When I served as the Local Government Chairman, 
which I did for ten years in the State Senate, I was concerned 
about the state as a whole. We were looking at the health of 
cities, counties, all special districts, and that was a 
responsibility that I assumed. 

When I was on the local Board of Education, I 
looked to the needs and to the direct effects of other 
governmental agencies upon local education, and that became a 
roll that I assumed as well. 

I think you're responsible to the people that 
elect you, or to the duties or the assignments that you're 
given, as we are now with the State Board of Education. Our 
charge is for all students, and we want to make certain that 
every student in California is successful. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you very much. 

I'd like to know, as Senator Baca went back and 
looked at bills that you voted for one way or the other, I think 



19 

your memory is amazing, because if I looked back in those years, 
I couldn't really remember specifically, and even numbers. I 
mean, that's really confusing. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How about yesterday? 

SENATOR HUGHES: No, but I know tomorrow and 
yesterday. That's fairly recent. 

Thank you very much for telling me that I should 
be on my toes. If I didn't do something right, that's your 
problem, but I do something right for my constituents, just like 
Senator Bergeson did. 

You know, I was looking around for stuff, too, 
just like you were, Senator Baca, and I found a letter that you 
wrote to the State Board of Education on June the 28th of this 
year. And you cited two goals that you would hope could be 
pursued and something done about. 

One was to establish an English Learner Advisory 
Committee, I think you called it ELAC, ongoing advisory board to 
act as a forum for issues pertaining to programs and services 
for English learners. And you want to advise appropriately on 
these issues. 

Has that been formed yet? And what are your 
objectives for seeing that realized? 

MS. BERGESON: Well, Senator Hughes, no. The 
response is that I have not received a response. 

The letter was submitted to staff — 

SENATOR HUGHES: Response from whom? 

MS. BERGESON: This was submitted, the date of 
the letter was June 28th. It was presented at the July Board 



20 

meeting. We have not had a meeting since July, since the Board 
does not meet in August. 

But I came upon the idea as I was observing the 
effectiveness of the Special Education Advisory Committee. And 
as we were looking at the issues, particularly related to 
English language learners, and the need to get the input that 
was necessary to allow us to make the best decisions possible, 
that it seemed advisable to me, and an appropriate response 
would be to have the input through the special advisory 
committee. 

Then, in addition to that, hold hearings to 
determine how the policies of the Board were being received; 
how we were able to improve if improvement was necessary. In 
other words, to hear from the field exactly what was going on. 

We have a great concern throughout the state as 
far as how we deal with the needs of English learner children. 
I think that that request is very much in keeping with the 
desire of the Board to do the best possible job for all of our 
kids. 

SENATOR HUGHES: In this letter, you also 
requested something else, that the State Board have a series of 
briefings on the various programs and services. 

Have you gotten a reply on that yet? 

MS. BERGESON: Well, it's the same response. 
When we reconvene in September, my hope is that we will have 
some information and some plan to go forward with these 
suggested recommendations. 

SENATOR HUGHES: So, that you think these two 



21 

goals and objectives will help not only you, but the other 
Members of the Board? 

MS. BERGESON: There seems to be a general 
agreement among the Board Members. No one spoke in opposition 
to it. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What do you know about bilingual 
education? And how do you have any knowledge of this? 

MS. BERGESON: Well, of course, I visited many of 
the schools. I've talked to teachers, I've talked to people on 
the front lines that are working with it. I have a very strong 
working relationship with schools in Orange County that have a 
predominance of non-English speaking. 

I have a daughter who's a principal at a 
non-English -- she's been a non-English speaking — or, I should 
say, an English language learner. She's been a bilingual 
teacher for over 13 years. I get a lot of free advice from her, 
and she's quick to — 

SENATOR HUGHES: Do you take it, because 
sometimes mothers don't take daughters' advice. 

MS. BERGESON: I never admit that I take too much 
of it, but it always does have quite an impact on her 
advice. 

SENATOR HUGHES: How do you feel about vouchers, 
and I think Senator Baca mentioned that a little bit? 

MS. BERGESON: Well, as I indicated, I have been 
involved in public education for 50 years, so I think you could 
say that I'm a strong proponent of public education. 

I believe that public education is the access 



22 

that our young people will have to success. I think it's 
probably of the greatest interest now of any of the issues 
facing either Legislators, and even mayors, I understand, are 
getting very much involved in education. 

I think we need to do so everything that we can 
to make it better. And I think that where we offer options, 
that it Improves the system in general. 

I have not supported general voucher programs 
such as 174, which I opposed. 

SENATOR HUGHES: The last question I have for 
you, and that is, the dropout. I am really very, very concerned 
that the dropout rate is getting higher and higher. 

What can the State Board of Education do to help 
lower that number? 

MS. BERGESON: Well, I think you've hit at the 
crux of all of the challenges that we have ahead of us, and that 
is, how do we motivate, how do we inspire our kids to want to 
get an education, recognizing how important it is to their 
lives? 

I think if we would do the job, if we can do the 
job, and working with parents, and working with our communities, 
with our programs, and mentoring, and full responsibility with 
the private sector, with nonprofits, to really engage themselves 
in our educational programs. After school programs, I think, 
offer a wonderful opportunity to extend beyond the actual school 
hours to meaningful programs, meaningful involvement, tutorial 
programs, mentoring, remediation if necessary to make kids 
successful . 



23 

Kids are pushed out of the system in many cases 
simply because they have not had the opportunities to fill a 
meaningful understanding of the importance of education. 

I think dropouts are more symptomatic of the 
failure that we've had in initiating the early intervention 
prevention programs to make certain that kids are going to be 
successful. 

I think with the direction that the State Board 
has taken, and the Legislature, the Governor's Office, that 
we're on our way to really assuring that kids will have the 
maximum opportunity to find that success. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I have one question. 

Can you explain the April 8th vote to revise 
Title 5 regs to guide the classification, reclassification of 
English learners? You know the issue of which I'm talking? 

MS. BERGESON: That question, of course, has been 
of great concern. I would like to allay the fears of those that 
feel that somehow we're trying to damage non-English speaking 
children by that particular action. 

I assure you, I would never take a vote that I 
felt in anyway was going to harm any child or any group of 
children or children in general. 

The Board, in changing those regulations in 
conformity to 227, and to provide for a transitional time, there 
were changes made in the Title 5. But specifically, and I'd 
like to indicate that this is something that really needs to be 
stressed, that in doing so, the Board adopted Section 11302, 



24 

which requires the services continue to be provided to English 
learners until the student achieves English language 
proficiency, comparable to that of the district's average native 
English speakers and recoups any academic deficits in the core 
curriculum that resulted from the language barriers. 

So, the message is clearly there that placement 
of students in the appropriate learning situation is not only 
desirable, but it's required under the Title 5 regulations. 

I might add, in keeping with that, Senator 
Alpert, in her bill, SB 638, is providing for the development of 
the English language development standards which are comparable 
to the English language standards that have been adopted for all 
students and the assessment that follows to assure proper 
placement, performance measurement, and is provided within the 
provisions of our entire accountability package. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: As a follow-up to that, that was 
one of the questions I was going to ask. I appreciate the 
President Pro Tern Burton asking the question in reference to the 
April 8th, because I was very curious in reference to your vote 
at that time that dealt with assessing and classifying and 
reclassifying English learners. 

Even though there was strong opposition, why did 
you take that stand at that point? Can you explain that? 

MS. BERGESON: Much of the work on this, of 
course, was prior to the time that I was on the Board of 
Education. I was active after January. 



25 

This was an action that was taken, had been a 
continuing activity that had been going on with Board/ trying to 
— desperately trying to meet a timeline in coming up with the 
requirements under 227, and to bring about a full understanding 
of the responsibilities to English language learners. That was 
done with what I considered at that time the appropriate 
response to make. 

As I said, all assurances are given that children 
are protected under the provisions, at the same time, given some 
flexibility. 

I would hope that we would give some 
consideration that teachers are in a good position to know how 
to deal with these young people in a way where they are going to 
be protected. I don't think anyone is out there trying to 
eliminate programs that are going to be beneficial to kids. I 
think we all want to work in the best efforts of the children 
that we see needing special help. 

And, of course, this is an area that we all 
recognize is a tremendous challenge, and one that we are going 
to do everything in our power to be able to provide the access 
and the programs that are going to be beneficial, and in fact, 
are going to be extremely beneficial at this point. 

SENATOR BACA: Marian, it would have been easy 
for me, I guess, at that point, in terms of my particular vote, 
had you voted otherwise. But because you voted a certain way, 
you had a chance to redeem yourself in reference to bilingual 
education, continuing education, and for the English learners, 
too, as well, and that was a guide. 



26 

What guides do teachers now have to classify 
students? Do you know? 

MS. BERGESON: As I indicated, through the code 
section I think it's very, very clear that teachers are to look 
at children and place them in those positions. We have 
assessments now that are given. 

Currently, under the present provisions, though 
they are given some flexibility that they are to place them in 
these courses or in these classes that are going to give them 
the benefit of a proper developmental placement. 

And again, as this legislation is going forward, 
which is in keeping with the position that the Board has had, 
which the Legislature has adopted, Senator Alpert's bill is very 
much in keeping with the positions that the Board has had. 

SENATOR BACA: One final question, Mr. Chairman. 

What stands have you taken at the Board to 
protect the quality of education in charter schools? 

MS. BERGESON: I think the charter school 
legislation, again, the Board has been following the provisions 
which have been set up. We have acted on various funding models 
to try to provide the opportunities for development of charter 
school, protections of charter schools, in a way that the 
Legislature originally intended. 

And Senator Hart, who was the author of the bill, 
worked closely with his office, the Governor's Office, in making 
certain that the intent and purposes of charter schools are 
protected. 

SENATOR BACA: Should charter schools have the 



27 

same binding arbitration collective bargaining that public 
schools should have? 

MS. BERGESON: I don't believe public schools 
have binding arbitration. 

I believe that the flexibility of charter schools 
is one that relieves them of some of the constraints of the 
Code. However, employees are treated under the action taken by 
the Board consistent with the law as the legislation is now in 
current form. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in support. 

SECRETARY HART: Mr. Chairman and Members of the 
Committee, my name is Gary Hart. I'm Secretary of Education for 
the Davis administration. 

On behalf of Governor Davis, I want to urge the 
Rules Committee to confirm Marian Bergeson and the other Members 
of the State Board of Education before you today, all of whom 
have been appointed by Governor Davis to the State Board of 
Education. 

Governor Davis believes that these appointments 
are among the most important of his administration, since the 
Members of the State Board of Education have major 
responsibilities for carrying out his and the Legislature's 
recently enacted education reform measures that focus on 
strengthening academic standards and developing a stronger 
system of public accountability in our schools. 

I want to make just three brief comments, if I 
may, Mr. Chairman. I know your time is very limited. 



28 

The three comments that I want to make are, first 
of all, Senator Alpert made reference to Senator Bergeson's 
outstanding background in terms of her experiences and 
expertise. I think that brings a great deal to the State Board 
of Education. 

I would just add that I think Senator Bergeson, 
and those of us who have had an opportunity to work with her 
know some of the personal qualities that she brings to this 
process in terms of her patience, her diligence, her respect for 
other points of view that can serve the State Board of 
Education, I think, in a very distinguished manner. 

I know in my conversations with Members of the 
State Board, both those who have been appointed by Governor 
Davis and those who were appointed by Governor Wilson, to a 
person they have found Marian Bergeson has been an outstanding 
Member of the State Board of Education and has contributed a 
great deal to the deliberations and work of the Board. 

The second point that I wanted to make is that, 
from my own personal experience working here in the Legislature 
with Senator Bergeson on education matters, and I was just 
thinking as Senator Hughes was asking her questions, that it was 
in this very room, back in 1983, that we served on a conference 
committee that led to the passage of the Hughes-Hart Education 
Reform Act, and then Assembly Member Bergeson was one of our 
conferees. And we worked in this room for many, many hours to 
put forward a bill that I think we're all very proud of. 

But I think in terms of Marian's contributions to 
the legislative process, I particularly want to make note of her 



29 

leadership and her work on issues relating to recruitment of 
teachers and support of classroom teachers. 

I think of almost all of the bills that we've 
passed in the last 20 or 30 years, the leadership that Marian 
Bergeson provided in the development of the new teacher program 
that is now called the Beginning Teacher Support and Assessment, 
is one of the most effective state education programs that was 
ever passed by this Legislature. 

As we now move to try to get kids to reach high 
academic standards, we are going to be focusing much more of our 
attention on how can we help teachers, how can we get the very 
best people into the classroom. And Marian's experience and 
background on these issues is going to be of enormous benefit to 
the State Board of Education and to all of us that are involved 
in key education issues to try to improve student achievement in 
the State of California. 

The last point that I wanted to make, 
Mr. Chairman and Members, is that I know in looking at some of 
the letters of opposition, there have been issues raised about 
Marian's commitment to language minority children. And there 
are many contentious and complicated issues that have come 
before the State Board of Education. 

But I think the record needs to show that Marian 
Bergeson has been supportive of the Governor and this 
Legislature's significant financial support in this year's 
budget for increased funding for English language learners. 

She has been supportive of the State Board's 
action to develop English language development standards, and to 



30 

develop an examination consistent with legislative directions so 
that we have in place some mechanisms by which we can be 
evaluating and assessing English language learner students on a 
regular basis as to what progress they're making to learning the 
English language. That's consistent with federal law. It's 
consistent with what I think the intentions of this Legislature 
are. 

So, for all of these reasons, I believe that 
Senator Bergeson is deserving of support of the Senate. And I, 
and I know Governor Davis, would urge the Senate Rules Committee 
and the entire Senate to support her confirmation to the State 
Board of Education. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any other witnesses in support? 
Briefly. 

MR. MEYERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members. 
I'm Dennis Meyers with the Association of California School 
Administrators, speaking in support of Ms. Bergeson' s 
nomination. 

When we think of Marian Bergeson, that's when I 
bring up four words that come to mind. One obviously is 
experience, her breadth of experience, starting as a parent, 
teacher, school board member, on up the line, even County Board 
of Supervisors. She is very well qualified, even argue that 
she's over qualified for such a position. 

That's always impressive to me that somebody 
could have almost 50 years of experience and only be 39 years of 
age. That's particularly impressive to us. 

But other things, too, just her commitment and 



31 

her dedication, I think, are pretty obvious to those of you 
here. 

But one word I just want to focus on, and that is 
one of collaboration. Ms. Bergeson — we are never going to 
agree on everything. We know that as an Association, just as we 
don't agree with everything that you all vote on as well. 

But we do know that in Marian Bergeson, we have 
someone who is a collaborator, someone who doesn't bring a 
specific agenda to the State Board that she wants to force down 
the throats of public schools, but somebody who's willing to 
sits and talk, take in information, try to change minds, but 
also have an open mind to have her mind changed as well. 

And while we know we're never going to agree 100 
percent, we know that we can have that discussion with Marian 
Bergeson, and that she's open to our input as school 
administrators as we try to serve our 6 million students. 

So, with that, we are supportive of her 
nomination. We ask that you keep that open mind as well and go 
ahead and support her and approve her, because we think that she 
will work well with the Board as it's now and as it will be in 
the future. So we ask for your support. 

Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Other witnesses in support, 
briefly. 

MR. ALDER: Senator Burton and Members of the 
Rules Committee, my name is Henry Alder. I'm Professor of 
Mathematics at University of California at Davis, and a former 
member of the State Board of Education, having been appointed by 



32 

Governor Jerry brown. 

As such, I have kept in close contact with the 
work of the Board. I've been deeply impressed with the complete 
dedication to the badly needed improvement of the K through 12 
education of California's children. 

Since her appointment to the Board in September, 
1998, Marian Bergeson has made significant contributions to the 
work of the Board. She's uniquely qualified for this effort as 
a result of her 50 years in education, starting as an elementary 
school teacher in Santa Monica during the 1950s, and ending as 
Secretary of the Governor's Office of Child Development and 
Education from 1996 to '98. 

It is hard to imagine anyone having a more 
appropriate and impressive record of achievements qualifying for 
membership on the State Board of Education than Marian 
Bergeson. In all her life, she has been a model for what is so 
badly needed in education, setting high expectations for all 
students, advocating special programs for minority students, 
developing outreach programs, promoting better teacher 
preparation and staff development. 

Just considering only the honors and awards she 
has received must be unprecedented for a Member of the State 
Board. As if that were not enough, she stands also out as a 
Member of the Boards obviously having done her homework, being 
objective, fair, and showing a willingness to listen and learn. 

It is no wonder, then, that she has the 
endorsement for the position as a Member of the State Board of 
Education from both the previous and current governors and the 



33 

current Secretary of Education, as well as those from both 
parties truly interested in a significant advance in education 
for California's children. 

At a time when the State Board has adopted new 
world-class academic standards for California's children, 
adopted text books designed to teach these standards, and 
implemented appropriate assessments to measure students' 
achievement of these standards, it is clearly imperative that 
there be some continuity in the membership of State Board of 
Education. It will be nothing short of a calamity to remove 
from the Board a person with the exceptional qualifications of 
Marian Bergeson after only ten months on the Board. 

A strong confirmation vote for Marian Bergeson by 
the Senate will not only retain a superbly qualified Member on 
the State Board of Education, but will also send a clear signal 
to the entire state that the Legislature is determined to 
continue its support of sound education for California's 
children, and wants to see continued significant progress in 
this direction. 

She's vitally needed to implement the changes 
that the Board has made during the past three years to make a 
quality mathematics education with first-class text books 
available to all of California's children. 

Allow me to thank you for this opportunity to 
testify. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. Other witnesses? 

MS. SCHWARZE: Good morning. My name is Leslie 
Schwarze, and I am a School Board Member in Novate I'm also a 



34 

member of the State Curriculum Commission. 

But I am not here speaking on behalf of either of 
those groups. I'm here as an individual parent, and I will be 
brief. I'm just coming off of vacation. 

I wanted to let you know, I have a 7th grader and 
a 3rd grader. And my 7th grader, I've been battling this thing 
since she was in kindergarten. 

What you've done for us in California as parents 
is nothing short of heroic as a Legislature. And I was elected 
in 1997 based on that idea that the Legislature brought forward 
starting in 1995. 

And I can honestly tell you as a local board 
member that if you don't have people sitting on your State Board 
of Education who have a history and an understanding of what you 
have been trying to do for the students of California, it will 
not be carried forward in the way you had intended. 

This is the best thing that's ever happened. I 
can't think of a taxpayer who isn't just delighted at what's 
being brought forward. 

So please, please keep this in mind during the 
confirmation. You must consider people who have a background 
and an understanding of what this is about, because their 
knowledge is really what's going to allow this to be more than 
just the latest fad. 

Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Other witnesses in support? 

Witnesses in opposition, please come forward. 



35 

And I would ask that there not be much repetition because we've 
all received a mountain. 

People, there's four. There's two other seats up 
here with mikes, the point being, people can come up and sit 
there. 

I would like to try to limit the opposition, 
including questions, to 45 minutes. 

MR. WEIMER: My name is Mike Weimer. I'm 
representing the California Federation of Teachers today. 

We oppose Marian Bergeson's confirmation to the 
State Board of Education. We do so because Ms. Bergeson's views 
on issues of concern to our members and to our labor affiliates 
stand in antithesis to some of our core beliefs. 

First, Ms. Bergeson has been a supporter of what 
are euphemistically called Opportunity Scholarships. In 
practice, these scholarships do nothing to attack the root 
problem of poor academic performance. Allowing parents to 
transfer their children to, quote, "better", unquote, schools 
simply ignores the problem of providing educational services to 
all students. In effect, this implies that student performance 
will improve if we simply shift the burden of education to 
another site. 

The Federation has consistently opposed such 
measures, and today we oppose the confirmation of someone who 
supports that idea. 

Second, Ms. Bergeson has failed to support 
affirmative action, an idea that offers every individual an 
equal opportunity to succeed. Everyone is entitled to receive 



36 

any necessary assistance, both within the educational system and 
outside the system in order to become active, fully 
participating members of society. Without affirmative action, 
many will simply be allowed to sink or swim on their own. 

The Federation opposes such a concept, and today 
opposes the confirmation of one who does not support affirmative 
action. 

Finally, Ms. Bergeson has failed to support the 
right of workers to collectively bargain with an employer. The 
right to reach an agreement with an employer from a position of 
equality is a fundamental tenent of all labor unions. Without 
that right, the only option left for the employees is collective 
begging. 

The Federation opposes any attempt to deny equity 
to any group of employees and today opposes the confirmation of 
one who does not support collective bargaining. 

In conclusion, the Federation believes that as a 
Member of the State Board of Education, Ms. Bergeson would 
represent a particularly narrow viewpoint. We believe that is 
not in the best interests of the state, nor its educational 
system. 

We would ask the Committee to vote no on the 
confirmation of Marian Bergeson to the State Board of Education. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Ma'am, we'll go back to front. 

MS. CHIN: Senators, thank you for the 
opportunity to present remarks about this important nomination. 

My name is Diane Chin. I'm currently 



37 

representing the Coalition for Civil Rights, which consists of 
over 50 organizations, ranging from the international Ladies 
Garment Workers to the Child Care Law Center, to the Lawyers' 
Committee for Civil Rights and many others. 

I'm here to ask you to oppose Ms. Bergeson's 
confirmation because her record as a whole as a Legislator and 
as member of the school board demonstrate that she is not 
qualified for this position in California. Her full record, 
taken as a whole, does contain a theme which clearly indicates 
that she is anti-civil rights, anti-bilingual education, and 
anti-labor. 

Many of you have received letters or in-person on 
the telephone communications opposing Ms. Bergeson's nomination. 
Those of us who have mobilized to oppose her confirmation do so 
as individuals and agencies with long and proven track records 
defending the rights of poor children to access equal 
educational opportunities, to advancing the rights of workers to 
fair treatment on the job, and as advocates for the civil rights 
of underrepresented communities. 

In California, close to 65 percent of public 
school students are students of color, and close to 1.5 million 
are limited English proficient. By the year 2007, the State's 
Department of Finance projects that 85 percent of California's 
high school graduates will be nonwhite. 

This majority of students deserve and require 
School Board Members who are committed to ensuring that their 
educational needs are met, that their civil rights are advanced 
and protected, and that their teachers are diverse and treated 



38 

fairly. 

Regrettably, as detailed in the hundreds of 
letters of opposition that have been generated against 
Ms. Bergeson and which you have received, Ms. Bergeson's voting 
record and positions so that she cannot fulfill these duties. 

She has opposed minimum or adequate funding for 
public education, including Governor Wilson's efforts to cut 
$2.3 billion for public education. She has opposed civil rights 
for people of color, women, and the gay-lesbian and bisexual 
community quite consistently. She has opposed full bilingual 
education rights as shown by her consistent voting record 
against the reauthorization of the Bilingual Education Act, and 
she has consistently, as was noted before, opposed worker rights 
and protections. 

Her record shows that she will not represent or 
understand the educational needs of the majority of California's 
public school students and work force. 

Those of us here today in opposition to 
Ms. Bergeson's confirmation, and those of us who have sent you 
letters.* e-mails, faxes, and made phone calls, are not naive. 
We know that it is unlikely that we've changed any of your 
decisions to support Ms. Bergeson, even though many of you and 
others in the Senate and in the Assembly voted against her 
confirmation when she was nominated to become Superintendent of 
Schools precisely for the record that has been cited today. 

And while we are not naive, we do somehow also 
believe that the appointment process in this state can and 
should operate fairly and democratically, and that our elected 



39 

representatives should be advocates for the best interests of 
their constituents. 

We ask you today to vote as advocates for the 
best interests of the poor, immigrant, language minority 
children, and children of color in California, your constituents 
and our collective future. 

And we ask you to put aside any political deals 
that were unfairly asked of you to make in back rooms or in 
hallways to which these same children have no access. 

We ask you to vote to oppose the confirmation of 
Marian Bergeson. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Next. 

Thank you and good morning, honorable Members of 
the Senate Rules Committee. 

I'm Mary Hernandez. I'm the Vice President of 
the San Francisco Board of Education. I'm a past president of 
the Hispanic National Bar Association. And I'm a parent of two 
young children in the public schools. 

But I do not come here speaking just as a parent. 
I come in all three, authorized to speak in all three 
capacities, and I am here to speak in opposition to the 
confirmation of Marian Bergeson to the State Board of 
Education. 

On August 10th, the San Francisco Board of 
Education voted unanimously to oppose the nomination of Marian 
Bergeson to the State Board of Education, and to strongly 
recommend the appointment of Members who are reflective of the 
ethnic diversity of the student population in this state, and 



40 

who are knowledgeable of and concerned for the educational needs 
of all students. 

Now, why did the San Francisco Board of Education 
unanimously take this extraordinary action? Simply put, because 
Marian Bergeson has a track record of being against practically 
everything San Franciscans are for, and the State Board of 
Education is too important in the lives of our children to be 
silent on the confirmation of a position as important as this. 

At a time when California's school system is 
among the most underfunded in the country, the Senate's being 
asked to confirm a person who has voted against public school 
funding. 

San Franciscans have always taken seriously their 
legal and moral obligations to combat racism, sexism, other 
forms of bias, and taken seriously their responsibility to 
provide equal educational opportunity for all students. 

Yet before you is a person with a poor track 
record in this regard. I simply note, since it's been repeated 
before and I will not repeat others before me, her vote on — 
her opposition to affirmative action. 

A significant issue not only for San Franciscans, 
but for many throughout the state is equal opportunity and 
equity for limited English speaking students. We want districts 
to be held accountable for the academic progress of LEP 
children, not just their ability to learn English, but their 
academic progress in other core subject areas. 

Yet recently on the State Board of Education, 
Bergeson voted to gut critically important LEP regulations, 



41 

including uniform state guidelines on how limited English 
speaking children are identified and how they may be 
reclassified, making such accountability virtually impossible. 

If every teacher in every classroom has the 
ability to decide how they will classify and reclassify student, 
how can we track their academic progress and hold them 
accountable? 

And I must add that before voting on this, a 
number of experts appeared before her and the State Board, and a 
number of community representatives, making passionate testimony 
in opposition to this — to this action. These are people who 
would make excellent members of an advisory committee on this 
issue. No one spoke in favor, and yet, she ignored all of that 
testimony and voted to gut those regulations. 

And I must add that that testimony also made it 
clear that gutting these regulations was not at all required by 
227, as 227 was silent on the issue of this type of 
classification and reclassification. 

She didn't have to take the action. She ignored 
the testimony. 

Now, I ask you, what basis is there to believe 
that she's going to put together an advisory committee that's 
meaningful, and what basis do we have to believe that she will 
listen to them? 

I must also add on this issue, there's previous 
Board policy to exempt LEP children from testing in English for 
30 months. She has made no attempt to address this issue, 
notwithstanding the research, and, I must say, the basic common 



42 

sense that tells you that testing children in a language they do 
not understand serves absolutely no useful purpose. 

And I must tell you, I met earlier this week with 
the Republican President of the State Board of Virginia, who, 
based on research, informed me -- and I must say, my jaw 
dropped — that he was excluding LEP children from their 
accountability testing for five years. He just said, that's 
what the research said. How refreshing to find someone who 
actually pays attention to the research and does do things on 
the basis, not on politics, but on research. 

The State Board of Education sets broad 
parameters for what all California children are learning. As 
part of their work, its Members have broad powers, broad powers, 
to grant or deny waiver requests by districts, wide-ranging 
appointment powers to committees and task forces that develop 
frameworks, curriculums, standards, including content and 
performance standards for English language learners — for 
English language development. 

The State Board of Education makes determinations 
on very significant items, like district re-organizations, in 
which it is supposed to take into consideration impacts on 
underserved children, which includes limited English speaking 
children and minority children. 

The decision you make today should not be taken 
lightly. This is a very important position. And I do not view 
this as a Republican/Democrat issue. Like most Latinos, I do 
not believe that either party has a monopoly on good ideas, and 
I certainly do not believe that either party has a monopoly on 



43 

bad ideas. Every one purports to place a high priority on 
education. Both parties have indicated an interest in 
establishing and maintaining good relations with the Latino 
community. 

I'm here to tell you that the Latino community 
wants to be heard on this confirmation. Let me be clear. Most 
of us in this room would have no trouble supporting the 
nomination of a Republican candidate who has demonstrated the 
ability to make decisions grounded not in politics but in 
research, and who has demonstrated knowledge and sensitivity to 
the needs of California's diverse student population, including 
its limited English speaking and immigrant population. 

Such a candidate, however, is not before you. 
There is a reason that the Governor's nomination must be 
confirmed by the Senate. This relates to the Senate's roll as a 
check and balance against the executive branch. That roll is 
critical today. 

I ask each of you to oppose this nomination and 
request a candidate with appropriate qualifications that a 
plurality of Calif ornians can actually support. 

Thank you very much. 

MS. PATRON: I'm sorry, my English is not 
fluent. 

[THROUGH INTERPRETOR, MIGUEL GARIBAY] 

Good morning, Members of the Senate, the Rules 
Committee. My name is Arcelia Patron. I'm a parent, and I have 
three kids in San Jose Unified School District. I also 
represent the Parents of the Migrant Program of which I am the 



44 

President, and also the Parents Club in Washington Elementary 
School . 

This morning we left our houses at 5:00 a.m. in 
the morning with our kids to come over here and strongly oppose 
Ms. Bergeson's nomination to the State Board of Education. 

Based on the record of this lady, we consider 
there is a great injustice for our kids if you recommend this 
person to the Senate to be part of the State Board of 
Education. 

We believe as parents that she don't represent 
the needs of the 1,004,000 kids of limited English in our public 
schools in California. 

We want the best for our kids, and we are sure 
that you also want the best for your kids. In this case, 
Ms. Bergeson, she's not the best option, for she represents the 
best for our kids. She has been against our kids, our immigrant 
kids, the color kids, and also against the civil rights. 

We as parents are opposed to Ms. Bergeson's 
nomination, and we ask you to also oppose her nomination to the 
State Board of Education. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

MR. ESQUIVEL: Good morning. My name is Rich 
Esquivel. I'm a 27-year volunteer in the Sacramento City School 
District and Elk Grove School District. I'm also a co-founder 
of a Chicano mentoring group in Sacramento by the name of John 
Kennedy Mecha, Parents Advisory Committee. I'm an alumnus of UC 
Davis, and I'm here to oppose the confirmation of Marian 
Bergeson. 



45 

I represent one of over 30 groups that signed a 
letter to state leaders on April 22nd with regards to 
Ms. Bergeson. 

Quite frankly, we don't contest the fact that she 
has been a very able Legislator. 

What we contest is the fact that she represents 
much of what is wrong with the educational system in California 
today, and that is a policy of exclusion to people of color. 

As a person who's been active for over 30 years 
in the school systems as a volunteer, we have the spin and we 
have the reality. We talk with inclusion, yet we have a policy 
of exclusion. And it really doesn't matter whether you come 
from the Republican side or Democratic side. 

The Governor has promised us that education, 
education, education will be his priority. And I suggest to you 
that when you have racism, racism, racism, whether it's subtle 
or overt, it still represents exclusionary policies to this rich 
and diverse state. 

What we are asking you merely to vote on today is 
the opportunity to have a State Board of Education which 
provides us, the people of California, with a culturally diverse 
group of people that actually want to include all of us in the 
opportunity to have an education. We have a right to that 
process. We're good citizens. We're taxpayers. 

We have people here today that can't speak 
English very well that are just as concerned as you were when 
you sent your kids off to school. 

My daughter is a recent graduate of UC Santa 



46 

Cruz, but I have worked very hard to see that her peers, 
regardless of their socio-economic and ethnic backgrounds, also 
have the opportunity. 

The reality is that we talk about inclusion, but 
we have too many Legislators who really haven't visited the 
schools. If you want to go to a good school, go to one in 
Ms. Bergeson's district. It's in Orange County. It's in one of 
the highest crime rates. It's run by an administrator by the 
name of Nadine Rodriguez. It's almost 100 percent Chicano. 
They have high expectations. They actually do engage the 
parents. They follow the state law. When the state says, 
engage those parents and provide them with notices and the 
language, when there's 15 percent or more of the people, they 
actually follow the law. 

There are so many school districts in this state 
that do not comply with law. There is no accountability in 
education, my opinion, in California. That's the travesty. 

I represent one of 30 groups that has asked the 
Governor for the opportunity to provide all of us with an 
opportunity, to have participation in our society. That's our 
fundamental right. That is our fundamental right. 

And let me assure you, when we supported the 
Democratic Party back in November of '96 by doing phone banks to 
help Democratic candidates win election, we were told that we 
would be part of the process. 

It really doesn't come down to whether you're a 
Democrat or you're a Republican. It comes down to what is fair 
for all the people. The people of California are rich and 



47 

diverse, and we understand. We are not naive to what the 
process is. 

I would like to welcome these children here today 
because they need to see what the process is. 

What we're asking for — and I'm almost 50 years 
old — is inclusion. If you want people that have spent 50 
years as educators in this system, or 50 years in the 
Legislature, then look at the failures of our educational 
system. We are not educating our children. We have too many 
dropouts . 

We are asking you for the right to participate in 
a system that we helped pay for, from the University of 
California on down through to I. 

And I thank you very much for your time. 

MS. ORTIZ: Hi. Good morning. I'm sorry for my 
English. I hope that you can understand me. 

My name is Rosie Ortiz. I'm a mother, and I come 
from San Jose. I'm the President of the City Council of 
Washington School in San Francisco District. 

We left very early this morning from our homes to 
come here with the hope to be listened and to have the power of 
influence in your decisions with respect to the nomination of 
Ms. Bergeson to the direct Board of Education. 

[THROUGH INTERPRETOR, MIGUEL GARIBAY] 

Ms. Bergeson has demonstrated during her time as 
a Legislator and Member of the State Board of Education that she 
has been against the kids who more need help, and I mean the 
limited English kids and also the immigrant kids. 



48 

We as the parents, we can tolerate all the 
attacks against us, also the things that they can deny us in 
services, but not to our kids. I mean, they are not responsible 
because we are immigrants or because we don't speak the language 
that people in California speak; I mean the English. 

Ms. Bergeson an enemy of our kids, and also she 
is an enemy of the immigrants and also the minorities. She's 
also an enemy of the civil rights. That's why we oppose her 
nomination to the State Board. 

We ask you to please don't recommend Ms. Bergeson 
to the State Board of Education. The State Board of Education 
is very important, and they're the ones that care of the 
education of our kids. A group like this cannot have a person 
like Ms. Bergeson. If a group like this cannot have someone 
like Ms. Bergeson, because she don't really represent the needs 
of the 1 million kids of California. 

MS. ORTIZ: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

MS. DIAZ: Good morning. My name is Martha 
Diaz, and I'm here representing the California Association for 
Bilingual Education, as well as the Californians Together for a 
Quality Education, which is a coalition group comprised of civil 
rights and advocates for bilingual education. 

We are here, or I'm here opposing Ms. Bergeson 's 
confirmation to the State Board of Education, basically based 
upon her record and her support of vouchers and Opportunity 
Scholarships, and which includes also her opposition to 
affirmative action. 



49 

I would just like to make a point of 
clarification in regards to the Title 5 regs. It should be 
noted that the Department of the Education legal counsel also 
opposed the passage of those Title 5 regulations. That that 
opinion was ignored, as well as another attorney opinion that 
was brought before the State Boards in regards to the Title 5 
regulations. And we feel that at that point, any Member of the 
Board could have requested more information of those individuals 
present, but did not, and that included Senator Bergeson. 

Thank you. 

MS. GUILLEN: Good morning. My name is Elizabeth 
Guillen. I'm here on behalf Mexican American Legal Defense and 
Educational Fund. 

We believe that Ms. Bergeson' s record in the area 
of civil rights and educational equity is important, that the 
position she has taken individually should not be ignored, and 
those things taken together make up a record that demonstrates 
she should not be confirmed to the State Board of Education. 

We urge your opposition to her confirmation. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Question of the representative 
from MALDEF. 

MS. GUILLEN: Yes, sir. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. 

I received some correspondence from you that 
listed a long litany of different legislation and reasons why 
your organization opposes the confirmation. 

MS. GUILLEN: Yes. 



50 

SENATOR LEWIS: One of the reasons was the 
nominee's opposition to certain so-called gay rights 
legislation? 

MS. GUILLEN: Yes. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Just in the interest of 
consistency, I wanted to ask you, would your organization oppose 
as matter of record, let's say, State Legislators that might be 
running for higher office, like Congress, for example, that 
opposed gay rights legislation? 

MS. GUILLEN: I don't understand the question. 
Do we oppose Legislators? 

SENATOR LEWIS: You have a long list of 
legislation here, and you're asking us to deny her confirmation 
because she supported that legislation. 

I'm asking you if your organization is 
consistent. If there was a State Legislator, for example, that 
ran for higher office, and let's just say Congress, for example, 
who had a record of opposing that same legislation, would you 
oppose his or her election to higher office as well? 

MS. GUILLEN: Not necessarily. I think we 
take -- we try to be consistent in looking at the larger 
record, not individual — not individual positions. We think 
the larger record, or the individual positions, taken together, 
make up a good enough larger record. 

SENATOR LEWIS: So you kind of make it up as it 
goes . 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You look — 

MS. GUILLEN: The record is quite long. It's not 



51 

a making it up as it goes opportunity here. We've got plenty of 
opportunity. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You take the record as a whole, 
and the pieces make up the whole. 

MS. GUILLEN: Absolutely. 

Thank very much for the opportunity to answer. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Sir. 

MR. MUNOZ: Good morning, honorable Senators. My 
name is Carlos Munoz. 

I had two daughters. One 3rd grade, and the 
other in 1st grade. And it's so sad to see my daughters having 
a very good education, fairly good education before now, now are 
failing and falling way behind. 

I represent also the Comite pro Educacion. It's 
a parents organization Pittsburgh. We are about 100 to 200 
parents. 

And it's really, really frustrating to see our 
children failing. We are trying to get as much help as we can 
from the district, and we are not able to get it. This is go 
all the way up to the way the education is being handled. 

I don't want to criticize, but it's really bad. 
We follow the whole procedure from the bottom to the top, and we 
were looking for a way to have improvement in our children's 
education. What we see when we ask how that can happen, one of 
our hope was that maybe if the assessment is different, maybe if 
the way the children are categorized is different. 

And now happen that Ms. Bergeson is against that 
kind of assessment process. It's very unfortunate. That's why 



52 

we really oppose her nomination. 

We all kinds of serious problems. People, it's 
unbelieveable . 

I think the education should be a loving 
experience, an experience where the political should be put 
aside, an experience where love should be the main feeling, the 
main emotion between the parents and schools and the school 
boards. That is not happening at all. 

I am telling you because I've seen all these 
parents frustrated, and I see the way the district is being 
handled. And I say, how these things going to change? 

And I hope that you, with all my respect, you 
will have the power to make the changes to have real educators 
in charge of our children's education. No other way. 

We have file complaints for discrimination with 
OCR and the Department of Education in California for nine 
discrimination problems. OCR came to our place and they found 
more than nine; they find eleven. 

And the district, they laugh at us. They don't 
care. They don't really care. 

I say, who got the power to make these changes? 
The school board from Sacramento. 

What I see here is this confirmation, it's not 
helping. It's not helping today. 

What we need is really, really educators in our 
schools, people who will do it for the love of education. 

I think my daughters, like the daughters of all 
the millions of Californians, I think the future is in our 



53 



children. And I think the future of this state and the whole 
country is in our children, too. 

So, that's why I ask you to oppose the 
confirmation and please support a educator. 

Thank you. 

MS. WEI: Angie Wei on behalf of Board of 
Directors for Chinese for Affirmative action in San Francisco. 

We respectfully oppose this nomination and urge 



your no vote. 



Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

MS. SANTOS: My name is Mrs. Lori Santos. Good 



morning. 



I'm a parent of two in the Sacramento City 
Unified School District. I am a member of the California 
Association of Bilingual Educators. I'm serving as Secretary of 
the local chapter here of the League of United Latin American 
Citizens. I'm a member of the National Coalition of Hispanic 
Organization who was directed by my mentor, Mr. Mario Obledo, 
and hero. I am also the President of the National Coalition for 
Better Education, which is why I'm here this morning. 

We are specifically concerned about the language 
minority as well as students of color here in California, and 
particularly within the Sacramento City Unified School District. 
I'm in possession of documentation from the Federal Department 
of Education in Washington, DC, concerning investigations into 
SCUSD, as well as concern about the lack of accountability from 
our own California Department of Education. 



54 

I'm the spokesperson For CDE File 394, which 
coincidentally addresses the charter school, and addresses 
misappropriation, misallocation, and misuse of Title 1 and 
multi-lingual monies, three years and still running, 
accountability. 

Ms. Bergeson's voting record clearly shows a 
trend of consistently voting against legislative efforts to 
address the needs of language minority students. 

Ms. Bergeson's record of voting on civil rights 
issues are equally discouraging. She has repeatedly voted 
against bills that would expand and strengthen the civil rights 
protections for California residents. SB 2150 is just one 
example . 

It is our belief the California State Board of 
Education should demonstrate the ethnic diversity of our state, 
and should be knowledgeable as well as concerned for the 
educational needs of all students, not selected few. 

As a Wilson appointee, Ms. Bergeson is out of the 
cultural loop and does not appear to be knowledgeable to the 
educational needs of our immigrant student population throughout 
the state. 

The educational future of all students must not 
be allowed to continue to rest in the hands of a Board that does 
not reflect the views and concerns of our community. We 
strongly urge you to not confirm Marian Bergeson. 

Thank you. 

MS. ESCOBEDO: My name is Deborah Escobedo, and 
I'm an attorney with Multicultural Education, Training, and 



55 

Advocacy/ and I will be very brief. 

I'm here on behalf of my organization and on 
behalf of Parents for Unity to oppose from Los Angeles, an 
immigrant parent group from Los Angeles, to oppose the 
nomination of Marian Bergeson. 

Just for the record, I'd like to submit a brief 
that we submitted to the State Board of Education concerning the 
LEP regulations issues. It was submitted on behalf of 
California Latino Civil Rights Network statewide, Chinese for 
Affirmative Action, San Francisco, Coalicion Unidos por la 
Educacion de Nuestros Ninos, Oceanside, Comite Civico del Valle, 
Imperial Valley, The Educational Empowerment Program of Central 
Legal de La Raza in Oakland, Frente Indigina Oaxaqueno 
Binacional out of Fresno, the Latina, Latino Indigenous Unity 
Coalition of San Diego County, the League of United Latin 
American Citizens, LULAC, statewide, Mujeres Unidas y Activas of 
San Francisco, Parents for Unity out of Los Angeles, and the San 
Diego Chicano Federation out of San Diego. 

I just want to submit this for the record, too. 
It lays out our positions concerning the regulations. 

Finally, I'd also like to submit to the record a 
letter that was given to Davis and, I believe, Senator Burton, a 
copy was also sent to you at the time, dated April 22nd, 1999, 
which also overwhelmingly — representing over 30 Latino 
statewide organizations and leaders throughout the state, 
expressing their opposition to Marian Bergeson and to what the 
Board of Education did with respect to these regulations. 

I also would like the record to reflect that 



56 

Governor Davis has never responded to this letter. And we have 
asked to meet with him on this issue way back when. We've never 
gotten a response. 

Maybe one thing that could come out of this 
hearing that might be positive with respect to our community is, 
perhaps, the respectful Senators on this Committee might suggest 
to Governor Davis that he might want to meet with the Latino 
community when they ask him to meet with them. 

Thank you very much. 

I'd also like to submits this for the record. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I'm having trouble getting him 
to meet with Senators. 

Yes, sir. 

MR. ZAMORA: Good morning. My name is Leobardo 
Zamora. 

I'm a concerned parent. I'm concerned for my 
children. One is going into the 4th grade and another one is in 
high school. 

They are suffering the lack of vision and 
sensitivity of Ms. Bergeson's action. 

I have analyzed Ms. Bergeson's voting record for 
many years, and it reflects that — it clearly reflects that 
she's anti-labor, anti-Latino, ant i- immigrant, and she's 
certainly not concerned for the educational welfare of all 
children, as she states. 

In the Pittsburgh Unified School District where 
my children attend, we are — it's in complete chaos simply 
because we do not have clear directives from the Board of 



57 

Education with regards to assessment of children, with regards 
to the changes that are being implemented. We do not have any 
directives from them. And consequently, the Pittsburgh Unified 
School District did not have a functional educational program 
for my children. 

The program that they implemented did not given 
them meaningful access to the core curriculum, and as a 
consequence, my children are falling farther and farther behind. 
And this is the reason why I'm here, and this is why I am 
against Ms. Bergeson's confirmation. 

Thank you. 

MR. LOPEZ: Good morning. Ben Lopez, California 
Rural Legal Assistance. 

I think it's all pretty much been said. I'm 
mostly here as a parent. My son is in an immersion program. 
The school is actively trying to take it apart because of the 
actions of the State Board of Education on Title 5, which they 
misinterpreted, misconstrued. 

The other thing that I can offer you is that for 
the past 15 years, Sierra Ley, which represents the rural poor, 
Migrants, and farmworkers, for the past 15 years I've been here, 
and we have sponsored and written and drafted 95 percent of the 
legislation on bilingual education, migrant education, and 
categorical programs. I have followed this record closely. It 
is part of my life. There's no circumventing the truth to me. 

I personally like her as a person. I think she's 
charming; I think she's intelligent. 

But I think there are better candidates. 



58 

Thank you very much. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Hart, I would hope 
that you would bring back the message to the Governor that after 
the session is over, and probably after he goes through that 
bill signing stuff -- that will be a headache — that he should 
respond to the letter of April 27th and have a meeting with the 
parents with concerns and community leaders. 

And I know you can't do anything but inform him 
of that, but we will also, the Committee will send him a letter 
just calling his attention to it. But I do think that that 
meeting and what could come out of there, with all respect, 
could be much more important than what will come out of here. 

Senator Bergeson, would you like to come up and 
briefly respond to comments? 

MS. BERGESON: Thank you very much. 

I really have very little to say at this point. 

I would like to thank those that were here and 
spoke on my behalf. I very much appreciate their support. It 
means a great deal to me. 

I listened intently to the opposition. Where I 
disagree with much of what was said, but there is one thing 
that's very clear. I think we need to do a much better job of 
communicating . 

I think the interests that I have shared, and 
certainly share with the Board, is that we do the best for our 
children. I think that those are exactly the aims, the goals 
that we are currently undertaking. 

I think we have a tremendous responsibility to 



59 

see that every child is given the opportunity, and I tried to 
make that very clear in my opening remarks, that the effort must 
be ours to make certain that every one feels wanted and needed 
and caring. And I think that people individually can do that. 

And I will do everything in my power, if 
confirmed, to carry forward the message that every child counts, 
every child must be respected, and every child must have those 
expectations that they can succeed, and they will find the 
future in California that will be meaningful and productive for 
all of us. 

I thank you very much for the opportunity to 
appear before you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I would hope that you bring 
back to the Board the feelings and the comments that were made 
here. 

And whether you agree with, I guess, the 
description of your position on some basic things or not, it's a 
reflection of a deeply held concern about problems in the school 
system, and especially for those who are English learners. 

I would say that if you'd never been on the Board 
of Education in your life, if you'd never been in the State 
Senate or Assembly in your life, the schools would still be as 
screwed up today, or maybe even more screwed up, than they are 
now. 

So, it's not one person that does this, but I 
would hope that you would take your experience at this hearing 
and the feelings of these individuals that represent a very 
broad concern that the Board of Education has got to be, I 



60 

think, more aggressive and more assertive in dealing with these 
real problems. 

Senator Lewis moves the nomination. Call the 
roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: I'd like to state the reason I'm 
going to vote no. 

Marian Bergeson, you have an excellent 
personality. I do agree with you in terms of the communication 
that needs to be done. 

But your overall record, voting record, does not 
merit the approval to meet the 21st Century, the diversity of 
all 6 million students of California. 

That's why I cast a No vote. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca No. Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Four to one. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. 

Next, we'll get Susan Hammer up and down quick 
before she passes out from jet lag. State Board of Education, 
Susan Hammer, welcome. We know that you just got off a plane 
from — has San Jose got a sister city in Barcelona? 



61 

MS. HAMMER: I wish we did. It's a lovely place. 
From South Africa, actually. I was in Botswana. 

Thank you very much, Senator Burton and Members 
of the Rules Committee. I really appreciate the opportunity to 
appear before you as I seek confirmation for the State Board of 
Education. 

As we all know, there is no single issue more 
important to the future of our kids, and therefore to the future 
of this state than to restore California as the leader in 
progressive public school education, and thereby restoring the 
public's confidence at the same time. 

This requires the Governor, his Secretary of 
Education, the Legislature, the Superintendent of Public 
Instruction, and the Board of Education to work together to 
ensure that our standards are demanding, that our assessments 
are consistent with the standards, and that all of us with 
responsibility for public education are held accountable. 

As you all know, local government in this state 
has no mandated responsibility for educating our children. 
However, during my eight-year tenure as Mayor of San Jose, I 
made education my number one priority. Working with community 
groups and schools, I committed a million-and-a-half dollars 
from the City's general fund to establish after-school homework 
study centers throughout the city. These study centers have 
become a model for other communities. 

I also budgeted a million dollars to develop the 
San Jose Education Network, which in turn leveraged millions of 
dollars from the private sector and countless volunteer hours to 



62 

virtually every K through 12 classroom in San Jose. We also 
included an extensive teacher training component to that 
program. 

Our program was well under way before the first 
Net Day, I'm proud to say. 

There are many other programs I initiated to 
address the needs of our young people with the assistance from 
my superintendent's Round Table, with whom I met regularly. I 
will not take your time to go into those today, but the goal 
was, of course, to address the needs of our young people, and to 
help them be successful students. 

Let me close by saying that I'm a product of 
California's public school system, from kindergarten through my 
graduation from UC Berkeley. Our three children attended public 
schools in San Jose, as did their father. 

I want kids today, all kids, to have the same 
opportunities we had. To that end, I ask your support for my 
confirmation. I'm eager to be a part of Governor Davis' team as 
we prepare our kids for the 21st Century, and as we return 
California to its rightful place as the leader in public school 
education. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

Senator Hughes for a question. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Welcome back. 

MS. HAMMER: Thank you, Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: The State Department of 
Education recently released some data showing that 67.2 percent 



63 

of our state's students are graduating from high school, and we 
have a high dropout rate. 

What should your Board be doing about this? What 
kind of leadership do you plan on giving us in this area? 

MS. HAMMER: Well, you know, I don't know if I'm 
exactly sure what the Board of Education's role is in that. 

I can only tell you from my experience as Mayor 
and through an effort that I started in San Jose, called the 
Mayor's Gang Prevention Task Force, we worked very closely with 
the schools and the county to establish a truancy continium 
program, working with individual schools to develop programs 
that would keep kids in school. And that program has been under 
way a couple of years. 

And I haven't seen any statistics. I guess my 
point is, as to how effective it's been, my point is that I 
think that there are ways at a local level to deal with that. 
And, you know whether there has to be some legislation, as I 
say, I don't know. 

But I think the Board should do whatever we can 
to encourage the kind of programs that go on locally, not just 
in the community that I'm familiar with, but around the state. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What do you think you could do 
as a Board? You're not a local school board; you're not a local 
city council. You're not a local legislator. 

What can your Board — I mean, you sit as the 
Board in the Sky as far as the state is concerned. What can 
your Board do dramatically to make the difference, to motivate 
those other people who are on line? 



64 

MS. HAMMER: Well, I think that, you know, as 
being a statewide Board, we certainly can be — we have the 
Bully Pulpit, if you will, to bring attention to what I think 
are really disastrous numbers. And if there are tools that 
local communities need, local schools need, to keep their kids 
in school, I think we have a responsibility to respond to 
those — to those needs and, you know, enable them to do so it. 

But again, you know, I think it's something that 
really has to be done at a local level. Every community's 
different, which means every community has different challenges 
and problems. 

And I think, you know, to look at programs that 
are working is something that maybe we should be doing as a 
Board, and making sure that there are the resources to implement 
the good programs that are going on around the state in a 
broader perspective. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What do you feel your Board 
should be doing about safe schools? We have been passing 
legislation. We've been sending it to the Governor. He's been 
signing it. 

I've been in the safe schools business for a long 
time. And yet and still, we don't have safe schools, as was 
indicated in the Los Angeles area recently. 

What do we do about hate crimes in the classroom? 
What do we do about hate crimes not all over our nation, but 
specifically within our state? What kind of leadership are you 
going to give as a School Board Member? 

MS. HAMMER: Well, Senator Hughes, it's my 



65 

understanding that actually schools are, although there' ve been 
some terrible incidents recently, and apparently the case in Los 
Angeles — I only heard about when I got back into the country 
yesterday, having been gone for three weeks — tout it was a 
horrible incident. 

Our schools are pretty darn safe, you know, 
putting aside the incidents like Los Angeles and Colorado. 
Again, you know, based on my experience — and let me just say 
that this morning about 3:00 o'clock, not being able to sleep 
because I guess my body was still on a different time schedule, 
I was going back through the back newspapers, and I saw that the 
Attorney General had a press conference, apparently, and is 
going to commit a lot of resources that he has to addressing the 
hate crime issue, which has increased, I think, around the 
state. 

But locally, again, based on my experience, we 
had developed a safe school and a zero tolerance program in San 
Jose and other school districts in Santa Clara County where, if 
a student is caught, brings a weapon on campus, whether it's a 
gun or a knife, or something else that can do bodily harm, he or 
she and his parent or parents have to go to a prescribed program 
that's ordered by the juvenile court judge. And again, it 
involves the parents. This program has been effective. Kids — 
I think it's several weeks for like a couple, three hours on a 
Saturday morning. 

You know, I guess this is something again that 
has to be done locally, and I can't directly — I don't know 
what the Board's role is in that. 



66 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Susan, just a couple of quick 
questions. 

In reference to the dropout rate right now, it's 
quite high, and it'll probably end up being higher. 

How do you intend to address the dropout rates, 
or recommendations? Have you thought about that? 

MS. HAMMER: No, you know, quite honestly, I 
haven' t . 

Again, one of the things that I'm familiar with 
is the way that the schools can involve parents through — 
there's a wonderful thing called — I think it's called the 
Parent Institute that does — works in communities, at least in 
San Jose. I think we had like the second program in California. 

It was started in Southern California, where 
parents and especially in minority — schools With heavy 
minority populations have high dropout rates, and to make 
the parents — teach the parents to become more involved in 
their kids' education. And, you know, I think that that's 
something that is very, very necessary, and, you know, become a 
part of their kids' lives in their school experience. 

There's a prescribed program that they go 
through. I think that's an example of something that can help 
the dropout rate. You know, I think a lot of kids feel that the 
schools — 

SENATOR BACA: Susan, that's one area that, 
hopefully, you can look at in terms of the future, because I 



67 

think that we're going to see a high dropout rate. 

As we look at that/ look at how we might work not 
only with continuation schools with parental involvement/ or 
other programs, but maybe look at developing some kind of a 
master plan that will address the dropout rates, too/ as well. 
Hopefully you'll look at that. 

MS. HAMMER: Sure, be happy to. 

SENATOR BACA: The other question I have is, we 
work to assure that various state assessments tests — the STAR, 
the high school, the exit exam, and the matrix test — work 
together. 

MS. HAMMER: Absolutely. In fact, I have met 
with the 33, or a good number of the 33 superintendents in Santa 
Clara County several months ago, and that was one of the things, 
issues, that they were most concerned with. And I share their 
concern. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

MS. HAMMER: I think that testing and assessment 
needs a lot of work in California. 

SENATOR BACA: Move the nomination. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I understand that you were 
recently named CEO of the Synopsis Corporation in Silicon 
Valley, Science and Technology Championship? 

MS. HAMMER: Yes. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Something I'm really not familiar 
with, not being from your part of the state is, in that 
capacity, is that a volunteer position, or are you receiving 
compensation? 



68 

MS. HAMMER: I'm going to receive compensation. 
It's part-time. It's a nonprofit that was formed by Synopsis, 
and one of the co-founders of Synopsis, and I will be 
compensated for my time. 

SENATOR LEWIS: As CEO of this, what will your 
principle responsibilities be? 

MS. HAMMER: To expand the Science Challenge and 
Championship that has been going in our county for over 30 
years. The idea is to make it a year-around program, and have a 
very aggressive teacher training program, among other things, 
and to make sure that as many high school students who want to 
participate have the opportunity to do so. 

And that is, quite naturally, going to take some 
additional funds, over and above what Synopsis has committed 
over next three years, which is $3 million. So, part of my 
responsibilities will be to raise dollars in Silicon Valley to 
support this. 

And there are many facets of it. I mean, teacher 
release time, and getting a master teacher to work with a 
variety or with a number of teachers in a school or in a school 
district, and you know, on and on. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I'm not going to be so crass to 
ask you what your salary is. Can I ask you, though — 

MS. HAMMER: I have not signed an employment 
agreement yet, and I intend to do it — 

SENATOR LEWIS: Is it possible that as part of 
that employment agreement, would you be receiving any 
fundraising commissions, or anything along those lines? 



69 

MS. HAMMER: No, absolutely not. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Is there any kind of a potential 
for a conflict of interest here? 

MS. HAMMER: You know, that's an interesting 
question, and I don't know. 

Right after this was announced, or soon after it 
was announced, I left the country for several weeks. So, what I 
want to do is have an opportunity to talk to the Board's legal 
counsel . 

I was one of the principal proponents of a very 
strict conflicts of interest codes when I was on the City 
Council. And then for the eight years as Mayor, I have lived 
under a very stringent conflict of interest code. I believe 
that they are useful and should be adhered to. 

If there's any questions, there's the FPPC, too, 
who issues rulings on that. 

So, I'm cognizant of it, and I appreciate the 
fact that you raise that as an issue. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Suffice it to say that in your 
fundraising activity, you certainly wouldn't be raising funds 
from anybody that might have any state contracts. 

MS. HAMMER: Absolutely not. 

SENATOR LEWIS: At this point in time, let's ask 
if there's anyone here that feels compelled to come forward and 
provide testimony in support? 

Anyone here that wishes to testify in opposition 
or raise concerns? 

We previously had a motion from Senator Baca. 



70 

Please call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. 

SENATOR LEWIS: We'll place that on call so the 
other Members may be recorded. 

MS. HAMMER: Thank you very much. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Congratulations. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Welcome to the Committee. 

MR. JENKINS: Good morning, good afternoon 
almost . 

I want to thank you for this opportunity to 
hopefully move forward with a confirmation that I've looked 
forward to for the last five or six months, having done the 
work. 

You've read my background, so I'll be brief 
relative to my opening comments. 

I am a career banker, a father of three, resident 
of South Central Los Angeles where I was born and continue to 
live. I've spent the last 12 years of my live as the Chairman, 
Founder, President, CEO of the largest African-American owned 
commercial bank in the state, a bank that's been focused 
exclusively on ensuring that there's been equal access to 
financial services and products in communities that have 



71 

historically been ignored all up and down this state. 

And it is with that same interest in inclusion, 
in providing equal access, that I accepted the assignment with 
the nomination from the Governor to serve as a Member of the 
State Board of Education. 

What my background doesn't say is that my family 
has been involved in education most of my life. We, as a 
family business, have run day care centers in South Central Los 
Angeles. At any given point in time, we have had upwards of a 
thousand kids under our responsibility. Today that number is 
the about 1200. We start as infants, six months, and continue 
to grades three and four. So, it has been a part of my life for 
the last 20 years. And I have seen the direct result of what a 
good educational environment can do for our children. 

As a banker in the community and a business 
owner, I've been on the other side of that, where we have gone 
out of our way to attempt to engage and bring into our 
profession young people who come out of the school systems in 
Los Angeles, and in the capacity of very basic banking 
employees, tellers and clerical personnel. We have, on 
occasion, had to create our own tutelage programs to teach them 
basic reading and writing just because they are simply unable to 
compete . 

With that in mind, it makes the task here that 
much more important, and validates for me the need to be 
vigilant in what we do. 

I simply am excited about the opportunity. I 
believe that I bring a perspective of someone who is in a 



72 

community/ who is engaged in that community/ who can understand 
and create for this Board the nexus between the economic issues 
that confront parents in that community/ and the realities of a 
school system and their need to be focused on the educational 
opportunities for their children. 

I think it is that that the Governor saw in me in 
terms of being able to bring this completely into a full circle 
for those people who simply don't have the perspective and can't 
truly understand the plight of some of the folks, even those who 
were here, in some cases, this morning. 

So with that in mind/ I accept this challenge 
gratefully. I intend to give it as much energy and time as I 
can. And Lord knows / it is a time-consuming job/ as I've come 
to find. But I think in the short five or six months that we've 
been at it, I've the level of discourse raised. The debate has 
become much more significant, and I think the degree to which we 
are trying to be broader in our perspective is something I'm 
proud of, even in six months. 

So with that, I simply want to say thank you for 
the opportunity, and I commit to you that I will be as vigilant 
in this assignment as I have been in the context of delivering 
financial services to people who have been unengaged for the 
last 12 years of my life. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Good morning, Mr. Jenkins. 

MR. JENKINS: Good morning. 

Do you feel, as you have served now for a very 



73 

short time on the Board, do you feel that there's any conflict 
between the authority of the State Board and the Superintendent 
of Public Instruction? 

MR. JENKINS: Well, that's the age-old question 
of governance. I, too, have heard and read the debate, and even 
read the history with respect to how and why the configuration 
and paradox exists today. 

I've got to tell you, I have not seen, and it may 
be because, I think, certainly the new nominees and the old 
nominees, and even, I think, the Superintendent, have taken a 
step backwards in the sense that we've looked at this as an 
opportunity to move forward collectively. 

I have not seen the level of discord that I'm 
told has existed previously. The level of accessibility, the 
willingness on the part of staff to be, perhaps, broader in the 
flow of information to the new Board Members. 

Frankly, I believe we're off to a very good 
start. I like what I have seen. 

What we've said to them is, if you can provide us 
with a balanced look at an issue, you will get in response a 
very balanced and honest approach in the answer to a question or 
an issue. And I think, so far so good. 

I understand that this is an age-old question, 
and one that will continue to go plague us. And I understand 
that if there is a time to look at it, it is now, given the 
configuration of the Legislature, and the Governor, and all of 
that. 

But for the moment, I have found it to be an 



74 

increasingly pleasurable experience in the context of the 
willingness of staff to work with us. And frankly, I think 
they've, again, seen in us a genuine lack of predisposition, but 
a willingness to engage the issue, and to look at it as broadly 
as we possibly can. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Since your family is in the 
business of education too, and you're well known in our 
community, your family is, and admired, how do you feel about 
the voucher system? What stance do you take? 

MR. JENKINS: Let me answer it this way. 

My youngest daughter is ten years old, and as a 
consequence of this assignment, she will begin her 6th grade in 
LAUSD. She starts in three weeks. I am — 

SENATOR HUGHES: What school is she going to? 

MR. JENKINS: The Los Angeles Center for 
Educational Studies, it's a magnet school. And that's having to 
take her out of our own school system to put her into that 
system. And it was my way of ensuring and I remained vigilant 
and truly understanding of the impact of my actions as a Member 
of the State Board of Education, that I will be as a parent, 
seeing the consequences of what I do in my capacity here. 

I'm not predisposed. I am clearly committed, 
however, to public education. I believe it works. I believe it 
can work, and I believe that under our tutelage, it will work. 

We've not been confronted with the voucher issue 
per se, certainly in my short tenure. And, you know, I've seen 
and read, and it's always been on the periphery for me. 

But as we speak, I mean, I'm not predisposed 



75 

either way, but I believe that you can read into my movement 
with my own children that I have a genuine belief in public 
education, and I'm willing to bet, frankly, her future on it at 
this point. 

SENATOR HUGHES: We have a growing number of 
children who are immigrants from other countries in our 
community. 

How do you feel about the whole concept of 
bilingual education, and what kind of leadership are you giving 
on the State Board of Education to recognize the needs, the 
crying needs that these parents expressed today? 

MR. JENKINS: Well, I don't know that I've 
evidenced any real serious leadership yet one way or the other. 

SENATOR HUGHES: So, what do you plan on doing? 

MR. JENKINS: Clearly, though, even as — again, 
I have several perspectives, and certainly one of them is as an 
employer. I mean, we have provided places in our organization 
for the bilingual nature of the business that we provide, 
understanding it's part of our community. 

And clearly, I believe that it is tantamount or 
critical for us to recognize the diversity, the cultural 
differences of all of the folks. This is a big melting pot. 
And I clearly believe that we're going to have to find ways, 
constructively, to engage ourselves in that debate and ensure 
that the system is available to all. 

I have no confusion in my mind with respect to 
the legacy I want to leave. That is simply an educational 
system that is as inclusive as it possibly can be in every 



76 

single regard. And that would include being able to insure that 
students are able to receive an educational experience in the 
language that is comfortable to them. And I'm comfortable in 
that position. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What do you feel about the STAR 
test, specifically the augmented math test that was really very 
difficult? What do you think the State Board should be doing 
about these tests that we're using, and how should the test be 
utilized in terms of instructional tools? 

MR. JENKINS: Well, I've got to tell you, and I'm 
sure this is with other Members of the Board, the hardest issue 
for me as a new Board Member has been the whole testing issue. 
I mean, it's been the hardest one to truly understand in the 
context of framework, and standards, and the morass of tests 
that do exist, and the amount of time children spend on testing. 

I think, frankly, I don't have an answer for you 
at this point. I mean, it's been the most complex issue for me. 
And I still don't quite understand how they're supposed to 
intersect, interweave. I find the process — it's been 
difficult for me to understand. 

I can just sympathize with parents and some of 
the other folks watching from the sides. 

So, it is clearly an issue that I intend to 
continue to work to understand, to try to be thoughtful, and 
productive, and proactive on in the context of just ensuring 
that at some point, there's a testing mechanism that works, and 
not one that frustrates children, as the last test did in the 
context of those who simply had not even been prepared for the 



77 

material/ and teachers who simply hadn't taught it and didn't 
know what to teach. 

So, I'm not prepared to forcefully answer your, 
question other than to say I, too, am confused by it all, and 
will continue to try to learn and to be proactive in our 
approach to that process. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any other questions? 

Witnesses in support, briefly? Good. 

Witnesses in opposition? 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'd like to move the nomination. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Moved by Senator Hughes. Call 



the roll. 



SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Five to zero. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. 

MR. JENKINS: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Lift the call on Susan Hammer, 



please. 



78 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Five to zero. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations, Susan. 

Monica Lozano. 

MS. LOZANO: Good morning, Senator Burton, 
distinguished Members of this Committee. 

I thank you for the opportunity to come before 
you today. I'm honored to be here and to be considered for an 
appointment to the State Board of Education. 

I intend to keep my remarks brief, and I look 
forward to answering any questions you may have of me. 

I believe that we live in a unique time that 
offers us a unique opportunity. Californians today are clearly 
united around one dominant common issue. There is a general 
consensus that education, and particularly K-12 education, is 
the state's number one priority, as well as number one challenge 
facing California. 

Californians have spoken loudly and clearly, and 
our highest ranging policy makers have responded appropriately. 

Within the last ten months, we have elected a 
Governor who ran on a platform of education, education, 
education. Our Legislature, under the leadership of Senator 
Burton, enacted four sweeping school reform bills in a Special 
Session that dealt with school accountability, teacher peer 
review, as well as reading programs. 



79 

Our strong economy has allowed us to pass a 
budget/ allowed you to pass a budget, that reflects the state's 
priority by allocating an additional $109 million over and above 
the minimum amount required by Proposition 98. 

Californians not only have supported additional 
funding for public schools, but are willing to pay for it. The 
passage of Proposition 1A, which makes over $6 billion available 
for school construction over the next four years, is one of the 
strongest signals yet that have been sent about how much we 
truly care. 

What better time to be a part of the policy 
making body that is charged with developing the blueprint as 
well as the action plan for our state's public schools? It 
would be a privilege to work with the Governor, with this 
Legislature, with Secretary Hart, and Superintendent Delaine 
Eastin, as well as my fellow Board Members, all of whom are true 
leaders, and who have demonstrated their expertise, their 
dedication, and their compassion to these issues. 

At this time of renewed commitment to improve 
student achievement and making sure that California is well 
positioned and prepared for the 21st Century, we must stay 
focused on the basic approach which I believe to be sound. We 
must set high performance based standards for all of our 
children. We do need strong assessment tools which accurately 
measure students' progress in acquiring those skills and 
knowledge identified through our content standards. 

And we need to put in place an accountability 
system that appropriately motivates and incentivizes strong 



80 

performance . 

But it is precisely because we are in era of high 
stakes that we also have an equally important responsibility to 
ensure high quality educational experiences for all of our 
children, and to enhance opportunities for all of our children. 
This is particularly challenging, as we heard this morning, in a 
state as diverse and as complex as California. 

I, too, was born and raised in California. I 
cherish the richness and the diversity of this state. 

We have children who go to school in urban 
environments, in rural environments, children whose 
socio-economic backgrounds differ greatly. We understand that 
many of our students go to schools that are ripe with 
overcrowding, facilities that require maintenance. We have over 
1.4 million English language learners in this state, migrant 
children, immigrant children. 

The combination of class size reduction and the 
high enrollment projections have accelerated the need for 
qualified teachers. And many of our schools today are populated 
with emergency credentialled teachers. 

It is our responsibility at the level of the 
State Board of Education to work with those institutions that 
prepare teachers professionally and that can ensure that they 
are prepared to deal with this diverse student body. 

We have introduced a new framework and standards, 
and now it is up to us to ensure that the curriculum is aligned, 
that the appropriate text books are used, and that we are 
teaching to these standards. 



81 

Our teachers need the tools necessary to carry 
outs their job. And we as a Board must be held accountable to 
this end. 

An important report was recently released by one 
of your colleagues/ Senator Polanco, that focused on Latinos and 
economic development in the 21st Century. I offer it to you 
just as an example of the kinds of reasons why we need to care 
about this. 

We understand that today Latinos are 30 percent 
of the state's population, and yet we comprise 40 percent of our 
current student enrollment figures. The report appropriately 
links educational attainment to economic development, as we 
heard so eloquently by Commissioner Jenkins. This report 
demonstrates scientifically the economic consequences of low 
student achievement on the state's capacity to be prepared. 

We must remain focused. The partners for 
success — teachers, administrators, the use and the appropriate 
use of technology, facilities, libraries, text books — are all 
important in this endeavor. 

Let me just say that I firmly believe that we 
need to place more emphasis on working with and encouraging 
parental involvement. They are the stakeholders as much as our 
students are. They care, as we heard earlier, and are deeply 
and highly motivated to make sure that their children have the 
best educational experience possible. 

I would hope that we as a Board could develop 
strategies that engage and inform parents to ensure that their 
important role is carried out effectively in the classroom. 



82 

Finally, let me just close by saying that our 
challenge will be to catapult this renewed public interest in 
education into and unwaivering commitment to public education. 
We must make it succeed. Our society was built upon democracy/ 
equal and open access. Education is the great equalizer, and I 
am committed to doing what I can to help make this happen. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

I understand that among the many hats that you 
wear, one is that you are a Trustee of the University of 
Southern California? 

MS. LOZANO: I am. And a very proud Trustee. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Mr. Matthew Holder, who's 
sitting in the audience, I'm sure, would lobby me probably to 
move the nomination at this moment in time. I will resist that 
temptation for just a second. 

Are there any other questions, Members of the 
Committee. 

Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'm very honored to meet you 
today, and I'm sure that you heard the testimony earlier by many 
parents who were concerned. And you said that you feel that 
it's the obligation, and you should encourage parents to be more 
involved. 

So, I'm certain that the parents who came up 
today felt that they were truly being involved in the system. 

How are you, as a Member of the Board, going to 
allay the fears and concerns that these parents had? Because I 



83 

really felt their pain, and I really feel their concern. 

And how are you going to make certain that there 
is fairness to their children, who are our children, children of 
all of the state, to see that they get a good education? 

MS. LOZANO: One of the things that — and thank 
you very much, Senator Hughes. I, too, am honored to meet you. 

One of the things that we've spoken about quite a 
bit at the Board level are the methods of communication, and how 
this Board ensures that our actions are understood by the public 
at large. 

And as I mentioned earlier, I think there is no 
more important stakeholder than parents. 

We have not done a good job of that. I've been 
charged with reviewing the methods by which the Board 
communicates to this important constituency. 

And one of the things that I intend to do is 
ensure that not only the materials that explain our actions be 
translated, but that they be made available in ways that are 
relevant and understandable to all of our populations. That is 
something that should be done. I consider it to be one of our 
most important mandates . 

Because parents right now not only feel left out, 
they feel uninformed. And that for me is one of the most 
important ways in which we can act as a Board. 

SENATOR HUGHES: How will you as a Member of the 
Board reassure people that it's quite all right for them to 
participate? 

I loved what Senator baca did when he told the 



84 

witnesses to speak in Spanish, and then we had the translator to 
translate. 

So, whether you are Spanish speaking, are 
Portugese speaking, an Asian speaker, you are — 

SENATOR BACA: Parlez vous francais. 

SENATOR HUGHES: — you are reluctant to come up 
-- excuse me. 

SENATOR BACA: Parlez vous francais. Oui, oui, 
monsieur. 

SENATOR HUGHES: That's quite all right. You 
didn't destroy my train of thought, but you tried. 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR HUGHES: It's always important for you 
not to feel that you're being laughed at, and I think that's a 
reason. 

You know, we have many people in. the 
African-American, in the Chinese, and in the Japanese community 
who don't want to come up and say anything because they're 
embarrassed, because they don't feel that they have language 
proficiency, or they don't feel that they have the education, 
and they don't want their children to be embarrassed. 

What can you do as a Board, and as Board Members, 
to make them feel at ease, like Senator Baca did, that it's 
okay? 

MS. LOZANO: Well, I couldn't agree with you more 
in terms of the importance of the issue. 

One of the things that the Board has agreed to 
do, and has stated as a priority, is to take the work of the 



85 

Board outside of Sacramento. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Good. 

MS. LOZANO: It's important that our 
deliberations not just be held here, which, in fact/ is not very 
accessible for very many people, so we will be traveling. The 
Board has voted on that, and we expect to do that very soon. 

In addition to that, we have also expressed the 
need to make sure that our deliberations are as public as 
possible, so it looks as if we'll be on CSPAN, or one of the 
cable programs. Not that we expect to have a lot of audience, 
but those are some ways in which we think that we can at least 
provide greater access to our deliberations. 

I absolutely agree with you. In the case of 
parents whose first language is not English, it is very, very 
difficult. And it's up to us to make sure that the appropriate 
translators are there so that they can speak in the language 
that they are most comfortable, and in which their heart-felt 
concerns can best be expressed. 

I know that the Board is committed to ensuring 
that our proceedings have translators available for those that 
require them. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Wonderful. Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Just two quick questions before I 
move the nomination. 

One, Monica, in reference to the dropout rate, do 
you have any thoughts in reference to the dropout rates, and how 
to address that? 



86 

MS. LOZANO: I don't have any answers, and having 
heard the question now of a couple of my colleagues, I have some 
suggestions . 

And I would like to say that your idea of 
developing a master plan for dealing with dropouts, I think, is 
absolutely important. 

One of the things that I think we can do as a 
Board is to evaluate and gather the necessary information to 
understand what are the factors that contribute to students 
dropping out. We can be a resource for evaluation and the 
gathering of the facts. 

Once we know what those reasons, and I think most 
of think we have a sense of them, we can work with the 
Legislature to make sure that the appropriate funds are 
dedicated towards the programs that we know that work. 

We need to set the tone that we care. I looked 
at the dropout rates just for LA Unified, and on an annual 
basis, you have 17,000 children who are dropping out; 12,000 of 
the 17,000 are Latino children. I mean, there is no way in 
which we can allow this to continue to happen, recognizing that 
the population of the state will continue to be more and more. 

So, focusing on best practices, getting the funds 
allocated towards those programs that work, evaluating the 
reasons, tracking the expenditure of funds, and setting the 
tone, as was stated earlier, that we really do care, and that we 
find it intolerable that we suffer the kinds of high dropout 
rates that we are seeing. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 



87 

Move the nomination, Mr. Chair. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in support? 
Witnesses in opposition? 

Call the roll. 

I'm sorry, Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I've heard it now a couple of 
times, the anticipated increase in dropout rate. 

Why do we anticipate an increase in dropout rate? 

MS. LOZANO: I'm sorry if I misspoke. 

It's not that I anticipate higher rates of 
dropouts. What I'm saying is that the student population that 
has the highest rate will also be the segments of the population 
that grows the fastest. So, what we need to do is to intervene 
within that population rapidly. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Then you don't anticipate a 
higher dropout rate? 

MS. LOZANO: I don't; that's correct. And I 
would hope that we could do what's necessary now to make sure 
that — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: In other words, if you look at 
it just by numbers — 

MS. LOZANO: If we don't do something, right. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: All right. If you have a 
certain segment of children, that there's a very high dropout 
rate among Irish Catholics with freckles, and you are going to 
increase the number of Irish Catholic with freckles, it's fair 
to assume, unless we do something different, that we will have a 
higher dropout rate because those — 



88 

SENATOR KNIGHT: — the magnitude of the numbers, 
but that's why we are normalize it when we say rate, and put a 
percentage on it. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: No, but the rate would be, as 
we get more Irish Catholic with freckles, we get less blond 
haired, blue eyed people, so the rate goes up. 

Got it? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 



Senators . 



SECRETARY WEBB 
SENATOR HUGHES 
SECRETARY WEBB 
SENATOR KNIGHT 
SECRETARY WEBB 



Baca Aye. Senator Hughes. 

Aye. 

Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 

Aye. 

Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 
SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Five to zero. 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. Thank you. 
MS. LOZANO: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Vicki Reynolds, please. 
MS. REYNOLDS: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, 



My name is Vicki Reynolds. I was born in 
Southern California, and raised my family there. 

I got — received my Bachelor of Arts Degree from 



89 

UCLA and a Degree Superieur from the Sorbonne in the University 
of Paris. 

I began my formal activities on the Board of the 
Dubnoff School for Educational Therapy, working with children 
who were doubly disadvantaged/ both learning disabled and 
economically deprived. Our job was to set policy to meet their 
needs and to raise dollars for their programs. 

In 1976, I was one of 13 candidates for three 
seats on the Beverly Hills Unified School District Board of 
Education, and won a seat after a grassroots campaign run out of 
my house. I'm sure some of you have experienced that. 

During my nine years on our local school board, 
two years as president, we worked through a myriad of issues, 
including the Serrano-Priest decision, and the SB 90 
implementation, Proposition 13. I was president of the school 
board when we lost 60 percent of our budget overnight. It was 
at that time that I implemented the first ever joint powers 
agreement between school district and a city to find facilities 
that were jointly used by the district and the city. 

We addressed the transition from meet-and-confer 
to collective bargaining of school employees, and I was active 
on the California School Boards Association and the National 
School Boards Association on the legislative committees, 
lobbying for public education, and ran a workshop on 
boardsmanship . 

I have a record that I am proud of, with 
policy-making experience at the district level dealing with the 
day-to-day issues of public education. 



90 

I have won five local elections and will serve a 
record third term as Mayor of Beverly Hills next year. 

I am honored by the nomination to the State Board 
of Education and challenged by the opportunity to serve at this 
historic time. 

I strongly support the Governor's reform package 
and the collaborative efforts by the Legislature, State Board, 
and the Department to provide every student in California with a 
superior K-12 academic experience, the preparation to attain a 
postsecondary education, and the skills to achieve his or her 
potential as a productive and contributing citizen in the 21st 
Century. 

I'm hard working, dedicated, and experienced, and 
I would look forward to working together with you. And I 
respectfully ask your support of my nomination. 

Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Hughes, any questions? 

SENATOR HUGHES: Is this new board that you're on 
going to be able to help the poorest schools and share the 
knowledge of the most successful schools from one district to 
another? 

MS. REYNOLDS: I think that that is one of our 
primary tasks, is to bring equal access to the finest education 
to all schools. And as was my experience, lo those many years 
ago, what we did was to help level up those districts that were, 
in one way or another, disadvantaged. And that came from 
sharing resources, sharing knowledge, and sharing the commitment 
to those schools that need the extra help. 



91 

SENATOR HUGHES: Senator Bergeson, in her 
inquisition, had indicated that there were certain goals and 
objectives that she had/ and she hoped to be able to meet/ but 
staff had not replied yet. It's this coming meeting when she's 
supposed to get some of her answers. 

Do you think those answers are so very, very 
important. And if not, why not? Are you going to help her to 
get those answers? Are you going to put the pressure where the 
pressure needs to be so that you can get your job done? 

MS. REYNOLDS: Well, good suggestions deserve 
good answers, and they deserve support. 

And I am wholeheartedly in support of convening 
this panel of stakeholders, because going to the field, and 
going to those who have a vested interest is the best way for us 
to learn about how to ensure that we can deliver and require 
that the actions of this Board are for the best of every 
student. 

So, I do support her suggestion. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Last question. What's your 
views on vouchers? 

MS. REYNOLDS: I am adamantly opposed to 
vouchers. I think the charter schools are a good substitute for 
that. I think it gives the opportunity for students to have an 
alternative, and I find that I have a record of not supporting 
vouchers. I've run campaigns, as a matter of fact, against 
vouchers in my capacity as a school board member. 

SENATOR LEWIS: All right, anyone in the audience 
wishing to testify in favor of the nominee at this point. 



92 

SENATOR BACA: Can I ask just a quick question? 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Baca for a quick 
question. 

SENATOR BACA: When do you expect the English 
learner's test to be developed? Do you have any idea? 

MS. REYNOLDS: I don't think we have the timeline 
because there is a great deal of effort to determine really what 
is the best. There is Senator Alpert ' s bill, which you know, 
which was taken under your advisement, and we are certainly 
looking to the Legislature for their guidance. 

But we are working hard to develop those 
standards, and rigorous standards that will give English 
language learners also the opportunity to be the best students 
they can. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

Move the nomination. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Move the nomination. 

SENATOR LEWIS: We have a dual motion on your 
nomination. 

Very quickly, anyone from the audience that 
wishes to testify in opposition or raise concerns at this point 
in time? 

Secretary, please call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 



93 



SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 

SENATOR LEWIS: We'll place this on call. 

Congratulations . 

MS. REYNOLDS: Thank you very much. 
[Thereafter, CHAIRMAN BURTON 
added his Aye vote, making the 
final vote 5-0 for confirmation.] 

[Thereupon this portion of the 
Senate Rules Committee hearing 
was terminated at approximately 
10:30 A.M.] 

— ooOoo — 



94 



CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 

I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California/ do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 
3^ day of ^JU-yc^ 1999. 




Shorthand Reporter 



382-R 

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^.HEARING 

SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



Le&tsl+tv*'*- 




DOCUMENTS DEPT. 

OCT - k 1999 

SAN FRANCISCO 
PUBLIC LIBRARY 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 113 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 1, 1999 
9:03 A.M. 



383-R 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 113 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 1, 1999 
9 :03 A.M. 



Reported by: 



Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 



11 



APPEARANCES 

MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 

SENATOR JOHN LEWIS, Vice Chair 

SENATOR JOE BACA 

SENATOR TERESA HUGHES 

SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

WADE TEASDALE, Consultant to SENATOR LEWIS 

FELICE TANENBAUM, Consultant to SENATOR HUGHES 

ANDY PUGNO, Consultant to SENATOR KNIGHT 

MANNY HERNANDEZ, Consultant to SENATOR BACA 

ALSO PRESENT 

PAUL MONROE, State Director and California Adjutant General 
Military Department 

SENATOR DON PERATA 

HENRY R. MORRIS, Civil Aide 
Secretary of the Army 

DWIGHT "SPIKE" 0. HELMICK, Commissioner 
California Highway Patrol 

DAVID COMMONS, Private Citizen 

ROBERT VARNI, California Chairman 
Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve 

ROSEMARY PAPALEWIS, Vice President 
Sylvan Learning Systems 



Ill 



BONNIE PANNELL, Member 
Sacramento City Council 

BRIG. GEN. EZELL WARE, JR., Assistant Adjutant General 
California National Guard 

DENNIS W. HAYASHI, Director 

Department of Fair Employment and Housing 

SENATOR HILDA SOLIS 

RICHARD HOLOBER 

California Labor Federation 

ELIZABETH E. GUILLEN 

Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund 

ARTHUR G . BAGGET , JR . , Member 
State Water Resources Control Board 

SENATOR BYRON SHER 

RICHARD LEHMAN 
Former Congressman 

KATHLEEN COLE 

Metropolitan Water District of Southern California 

Bay-Delta Urban Coalition 

STEPHEN MACOLA 
Moulton-Nigel Water District 

JUDY JOHNSON, Chief Trial Counsel 
State Bar of California 

LARRY DOYLE, Chief Legislative Counsel 
State Bar of California 

HOWARD OWENS, Executive Director 
Consumer Federation of California 



IV 

INDEX 

Page 
Proceedings 1 

Governor ' s Appointees : 

PAUL MONROE, State Director and 

California Adjutant General of the Military Department 1 

Introduction and Support by 

SENATOR DON PERATA 1 

Background and Experience 2 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Who ' s Better : Army or Air Force 4 

Problem Deploying Troops during 1992 

Riots in Los Angeles 4 

Using Armories as Temporary 

Homeless Shelters 5 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Involvement of Guard in Community 

Activities 5 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Brother Retired from National Guard 6 

Fair Share of Federal Funding 7 

Present Role of National Guard 7 

Possibility of Guard Involvement in 

Inland Empire 9 

Motion to Confirm 9 



Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Efforts to Achieve Equal Opportunity 

And Greater Ethic and Gender Diversity 9 

Witnesses in Support: 

HENRY MORRIS, Civilian Aide 

Secretary of the Army 10 

DWIGHT "SPIKE" HELMIT, Commissioner 

California Highway Patrol 12 

DAVID COMMONS, Senior Citizen 13 

ROBERT VARNI, California Chairman 

Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve 13 

ROSEMARY PAPALEWIS, Vice President 

Sylvan Learning Systems 14 

BONNIE PANNELL, Councilwoman 

Sacramento City Council 14 

GENERAL EZELL WARE, Assistant Adjutant General 
Department of the Military 15 

Committee Action 17 

DENNIS W. HAYASHI, Director 

Department of Fair Employment and Housing 17 

Introduction and Support by 

SENATOR HILDA SOLIS 17 

Background and Experience 18 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Are Local No-growth Policies 

Considered Discriminatory 22 

English-only Requirement at Work Place 23 

Percentage of Unfounded Sexual 

Harassment Complaints Filed 23 



VI 



Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

More Complaints about Employment 

Discrimination than Housing 

Discrimination 25 

Plans for Getting Message to People 25 

Adequacy of Staff and Plans for 

Future Budget Year 26 

Action Taken after Burning of 

Synagogues in Sacramento 26 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Use of Internet to File Complaints 27 

Expired Statute of Limitations with 

Many Filed Complaints 27 

Motion to Confirm 28 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Religious Beliefs vs. Discrimination 29 

Witnesses in Support: 

RICHARD HOLOBER 

California Labor Federation 31 

ELIZABETH GUILLEN 

Mexican American Legal Defense and 

Educational Fund 32 

Committee Action 3 3 

ARTHUR G . BAGGETT , JR . , Member 

State Water Resources Control Board 33 

Introduction and Support by 

SENATOR BYRON SHER 33 

Background and Experience 34 



Vll 



Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Status of MTBE Problem 35 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Leaky Underground Fuel Tanks 3 6 

Availability of Funds 3 8 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Ability for State to Provide Sufficient 

Water for Projected Growth in Population 39 

Motion to Confirm 40 

Witnesses in Support: 

RICHARD LEHMAN 

Former Congressman 40 

KATHLEEN COLE 

Metropolitan Water District of Southern California 

Bay-Delta Urban Coalition 41 

STEPHEN MACOLA 

Moulton-Niguel Water District 41 

Committee Action 42 

JUDY JOHNSON, Chief Trial Counsel 

California State Bar 42 

Introduction and Support by 

LARRY DOYLE, Chief Legislative Counsel 

California State Bar 42 

Background and Experience 44 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Use of Mandatory Bar Dues for 

Lobbying Contentious Issues 44 



Vlll 



Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Backlog of Disciplinary Actions 

Against Attorneys 45 

Witness in Support: 

HOWARD OWENS, Executive Director 

Consumer Federation of California 46 

Motion to Confirm 46 

Committee Action 47 

Termination of Proceedings 47 

Certificate of Reporter 48 



P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 
— 00O00-- 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Perata. 

SENATOR PERATA: Thank you, Mr. Burton, Members. 

I am very proud this morning to be here to 
introduce General Paul Monroe, Junior. It's probably not 
surprising, given my vast military career, all the honors that 
I've received, that I should be here to do this. 

The General was born and raised in my district. 
He's a graduate of Castlemont High School, which is one of the 
old guard high schools in Oakland. He graduated in 1954. 

There will be others, and you certainly have the 
information that would highlight his distinguished career. But 
what I'm very excited about is that the General has shown an 
uncommon interest in working within the community and working 
with everyone in the community, that what the military has to 
offer, it has to offer to everyone. 

And I think that it's a great opportunity for us, 
as we enter into the next part of our — I hate to use that 
word, millenium — as we get over to the next year, that we have 
somebody who is as aggressively committed as he is. 

We have already made plans in the City of 
Oakland, which is mayored now by former Governor Brown, to work 
very closely with the General and with Guard, and look forward 
to working with young people as we begin to reform the 
community. Because I believe, and the General believes, that 
there are great opportunities for us to work with our young. 

I'd also like to take the opportunity just to 



acknowledge the fact that his wife Laura is here. Today is the 
first day of school in Berkeley. She is the Principal at 
Emerson Elementary School. And I think she was deeply committed 
to her husband, because normally she wouldn't have cut the first 
day of school, but she's here. 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR PERATA: I just would disclaim at this 
time that we're going to try to lure her into honest work in 
Oakland, sooner than later. 

But it is my distinct pleasure to introduce to 
you and commend to you for your of approval Major General Paul 
Monroe, Junior. 

GEN. MONROE: Thank you, Senator Perata. 

Mr. Chairman, Senators, good morning. 

I'm Major General Paul Monroe, of the California 
National Guard. As the nominee for the position of Adjutant 
General and the Director of the Military Department, I'm honored 
to be appear before you this morning. 

The California National Guard consists of several 
outstanding young men and women. They're dedicated to the 
service of the state and the nation. And to support them, I 
have put forth goals to enable them to develop. These provide 
for the readiness, both federal and state, emergency readiness, 
and for support to our communities: the maintenance of unit 
strength, so that we actually have the personnel to do the jobs 
we're expected to do; an equal opportunity program which will 
ensure that everyone can achieve- their full potential. 

Another goal of ours is to achieve full-time 



support. We get federal money to support this, and specially on 
the Army side, we are below the percentage of staffing which 
effects readiness. 

I also want to develop a positive public image 
for the California National Guard. We seem to be a secret in a 
lot of the state. 

We also have a strategic planning process which 
will ensure our relevance, now and into the future. 

We need to modernize our Army installations. The 
Air Force installations are extremely good. They are supported 
by the active Air Force a lot better than the active Army 
supports the California Army National Guard. 

And then finally, to achieve joint operations 
between our Army and Air National Guard. In order to accomplish 
this, we've established three core values. One of integrity 
that's uncompromising, honesty; and the second is duty, which is 
selfless service and excellence in all that we do; and our third 
is loyalty, that's to the nation, our state, those who we serve, 
and to each other. 

I have over 40 years of military experience, 35 
in the California National Guard. I've commanded at all levels, 
from platoon, company, battalion, and Deputy Brigade Commander, 
and here at the State Headquarters. I've also had a variety of 
staff positions. 

I feel the direction that I've established for 
the California Guard enables us to respond across the wide 
spectrum of missions for both domestic and international 
requirements . 



4 

Senators, I thank you for the opportunity to 
share a little bit about myself and California National Guard. 
I'm subject to your questions. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Good morning, General. 

GEN. MONROE: Good morning. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Question of the day: What's 
better, the Army or the Air Force. 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Do you really want to ask that 
question? 

GEN. MONROE: The Army is best at what they do, 
and the Air Force is best at what they do. 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR LEWIS: Back in the 1992, when we 
experienced the problems with the riots in Los Angeles, there 
seemed to be a problem with deploying the National Guard troops, 
a question of whether or not they were adequately supplied with 
ammunition and everything. 

Have you looked into that problem in the past? 

GEN. MONROE: Yes, sir. Actually, I think that 
problem was pretty much addressed by my predecessor, but it's 
something that we're concerned with, too. 

We are in the position to respond immediately to 
state emergencies. We have people responding as we sit here to 
the fires throughout the state, both Army and Air National 
Guard. 

I'm confident that the state will be pleased with 
our response time. 



SENATOR LEWIS: What's your position and thoughts 
about legislation that we recently passed again making the 
armories available as temporary homeless shelters? 

GEN. MONROE: I think that the California 
National Guard should be part of that solution, but they should 
not be the solution. We would like to work with those that are 
responsible for providing shelters to do so what we can in 
emergency situations. They're really not adequate to house 
people permanently, but we would like to be part of that 
solution and help with the services that will provide adequate 
housing. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Questions, Members of the 
Committee? Colonel Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Well, I guess my question, 
General, was the fact that you had written sometime ago about 
the Guard becoming more and more involved in community 
activities. 

I wondered what those involve, and how do you 
feel that the Guard should be involved in those kinds of 
activities? 

GEN. MONROE: That's one of our primary missions, 
and the Guard has done that all along. Most recently in 
Sacramento, we have adopted Parkway Elementary School. The 
132nd Engineer Battalion supports that school with some of its 
construction and maintenance projects. 

And as Senator Perata said earlier, we are — 
have an initiative going with — developing with Oakland. We 
have had the Angel Gate Academy, which has been going on for 



sometime for students out of Los Angeles. It's a science and 
technology based program. It runs for a year, but five weeks 
out of that year, we take 80 students -- this runs all year 
long -- and bring them up to San Luis Obispo. They take classes 
next door at Cuesta College, and they learn self discipline with 
us . 

We also have the Challenge Program. 

As I mentioned before, the Army has 127 armories 
throughout the state. That's the basis for their community 
based programs. 

The Air National Guard, even though they're an 
installation some of which are federal, they also have active 
community programs. And they reach out quite well to the 
community. Our Public Affairs section is very active in 
informing the public that we are there to support the programs. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you very much. 

My brother served in the National Guard and 
retired from the National Guard, and I served in the 101st and 
82nd, so I noticed some wings out there. So, it's appropriate 
in reference to your response about the Air Force and the Army, 
since some of us flew in the planes but jumped out of them 
because we wanted to be on land. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Not too bright. Just not too 
bright at all. 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR BACA: That's why we were tough, since I 
served with both the 101st and 82nd Air Borne Division. 



One of the areas that you mentioned in part of 
your statement is in federal funding. You indicated that we 
needed more funding at the federal level in order to be 
prepared; is that correct? That we're not getting our fair 
share from the federal government? 

GEN. MONROE: Yes, sir. That is my belief. 
There is, I'm sure all you understand that there is this 
perception not only in Congress but in the National Guard 
Bureau, which supports us, that anywhere but California. 

California has the largest National Guard. When 
the National Guard Bureau gets 54 things, they give one to each 
state. So, we get the same allocation that Rhode Island gets. 

We need to upgrade our C-130 air craft, the 136th 
Air Wing at Channel Islands. We're on the list to get them, 
right behind Rhode Island. When Rhode Island takes off, they're 
out of the state. 

And we use C-130s all the time throughout the 
state. There's C-130s fighting forest fire right now. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. That's an area that 
maybe our delegation from California can work on, additional 
funding, and plus any other potential Congressional persons that 
may be there. 

One other question that I have, General, is, what 
is the present role? What would you describe the present role 
of the National Guard? 

GEN. MONROE: Well, we have three roles. That's 
to be the first responder for a national emergency; to respond 
for state emergencies; and to support our communities. 



8 

Now, we do those quite well. Traditionally/ 
because most of our money comes from the federal government, we 
spend more time training for federal readiness. But that also 
supports what we need to do for the state. 

If we have the right force structure, and the 
prior administration did that, I believe, they gave up a brigade 
of our division so we could get additional force structure that 
would not only support federal requirements but state 
requirements, and then support to the communities. And that 
varies from the youth programs we do, to just making our 
armories available for community programs, after-school 
programs, or anything that a particular community needs. 

One way I hope to expand our influence in the 
community, in the Army National Guard, they have what we call an 
Armory Board. If there's more than one unit in the Armory, they 
get together and decide how they're going to use the armory, 
what unit will drill on what day. 

I am requiring that they also include a member of 
the community on that, so the community can also have the input, 
because in addition to some armories being used as emergency 
shelters, the armories are, except for the full-time people that 
are there, and that's only about three or four in any particular 
armory, they're virtually vacant during the week when soldiers 
are not actually training. So, the community can have input on 
how we can use that facility for the community. 

SENATOR BACA: One final question. You indicated 
in reference to community involvement, hopefully you could look 
at the possibility in an area that I represent, the Inland 



Empire, and hopefully that we have a couple of armories, that 
they could adopt some schools. If you could more or less look 
at what's going on in that area, and maybe suggest that they be 
involved in that area as well. 

GEN. MONROE: We'd love to do so that. That's my 



passion. 



confirmation. 



SENATOR BACA: Okay, that is it. Move 



SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. 

Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I've been told that the 
proportion of the National Guard officers who are members of 
ethnic minorities is less than half the proportion of enlisted 
personnel who are members. 

What efforts are you making to achieve equal 
opportunity and greater gender and ethnic diversity? 

GEN. MONROE: In the military, in order to 
receive appointments at senior level, you must have certain 
appointments at junior levels. So, one of the things I'm doing 
is making sure that our young people, especially women and 
minorities, are mentored at junior levels, that they get the 
education and the assignments that they need so that they're 
competitive at senior level. We have -- we are doing that now. 

The other thing that I'm requiring is that on the 
Officer Efficiency Report of each senior officer reflects, by 
name, what individual they are mentoring, and how they're doing 
for the year. And these individuals must include at least one 
minority or if female officer. 



10 

SENATOR HUGHES: How many mentees does a mentor 
have under your jurisdiction and guidance? 

GEN. MONROE: Some as few as one, but when you 
get more than about three or four, you reach a point of 
diminishing return, yes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'd like to move the nomination. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I think that's our second motion. 

The Chair would note that there is no opposition 
listed on record, but at this point in time we'll go ahead and 
ask if there's anyone who wishes to come forward and testify in 
favor of the appointee. 

MR. MORRIS: My name is Henry Morris. I retired 
from Bell Telephone and have spent many years associated with 
military reserve program, retiring as a Colonel in the Marine 
Corps March Reserve. Currently, I'm serving as Civilian Aide to 
the Secretary of the Army. 

I'm here to speak in support of the nomination of 
General Monroe to the position of State Adjutant General and to 
give my opinion as to why I feel this officer is eminently 
qualified. 

If a knowledgeable person were to be asked to sit 
down and write a list of the ideal perfect and most desirable 
qualifications for any officer to be a candidate for the 
position of Adjutant General, that list of ideal qualifications, 
when compared with General Monroe's military record, would be 
identical, identical in every detail. 

General Monroe's personal military history, when 
reviewed in any perspective, whether it be the military schools 



11 

he's attended, or the commands he's held, gives this officer a 
depth and variety of experience which is truly remarkable. Not 
only has this officer held nearly every rank, enlisted and 
officer, from private to general, but further, the wide 
diversity of his commands, covering many, many military skills 
and disciplines, everything from infantry, signal corps, 
military police, line staff, he is indeed unique. 

He's served as a platoon commander, a company 
commander, a battalion commander, and brigade. He's done it 
all. And in each instance, his service has been rated as 
outstanding. 

He was selected to attend Army technical schools 
in the Army's highest level top schools, the U.S. Army War 
College and the Command and General Staff's College. In each 
instance, in a highly competitive student body universe, he 
proved to be a distinguished scholar. 

Finally, in the interest of your time, I'd only 
like to add that General Monroe happens to be a good family man 
and a consumate gentlemen. He's someone who gets along with 
people. He's never too busy to help others in his community. 
He found the time to be Chairman of the Bay Area March of Dimes 
Chapter. He participated in Easter Seals, various youth groups, 
and is active in a number of similar organizations. 

I strongly urge your favorable consideration of 
General Monroe as California Adjutant General, as he is, indeed, 
superbly qualified for the job. 

Thank you for listening to me. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 



12 

Any additional testimony at this time? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: How did you miss Squadron 
Officers School? 

GEN. MONROE: I wasn't in the Air Force, sir. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: But don't you have the same 
equivalent? 

GEN. MONROE: Yes, we have the advanced course, 
and I did attend that. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: It wasn't listed. 

GEN. MONROE: Oh, I'm sorry. 

MR. HELMICK: Thank you, Senator. My name is 
Spike Helmick. I'm the Commissioner of the California Highway 
Patrol. 

I am here also to very strongly support the 
confirmation of General Monroe. 

I think you asked a question, Senator Lewis, 
about the working together, and things that have occurred in the 
past. And I'm here to tell you that both of our departments 
work very closely together in times of statewide emergencies. 

We have found General Monroe to be extremely 
helpful and competent and willing to work collectively together 
to ensure that the people of the state have both of our 
assistance in a timely fashion. 

I don't think you could pick anyone better. I 
would ask your support of the General for this position. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you, Spike. 

Any further testimony? 



13 

MR. COMMONS: My name is David Commons. 

I'm an old senior citizen, and I would very 
informally like to say that right now, forest fires are burning 
all over the state. We are threatened seriously by the 
possibilities Of disturbance of Y2K. 

And I know all of you fellas and all you ladies, 
you're my friends. 

I want to sleep at night. I'm 80-odd years old. 
And all the other 80-odd year old guys want to sleep at night. 
And when you confirm him, we'll be able to sleep. 

So confirm him so we can get up in the morning 
and go around with our eyes hanging down to our knees. 

Thank you very much. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. Next. 

MR. VARNI : Good morning. My name is Robert 
Varni . I'm the California Chairman of the Employer Support of 
the Guard and Reserve. This is and arm of the Department of 
Defense, staffed with a group of about 115 civilians here in 
California. 

Our mission is to maintain good relations between 
our National Guard members and the people for whom they work. 
And quite often, that gets difficult when they're called away on 
emergencies and have to come back and get their job, and the 
employer has had a difficult time surviving without them. 

So, the role we play is working with the 22,000 
members of the California National Guard in keeping those 
relations well. 

I would also like to add that a major role and 



14 

one that I participated in for a week just a year ago is the 
role of the California National Guard in international affairs. 

As you may know, the California National Guard 
mentors the Ukranian Army, and it's a very important task, to 
see that the Ukranian Army operates properly and with strength. 
And would be one of the General Monroe's responsibilities. 

So, based on our experience, and based upon his 
experience and his background, I strongly urge that you confirm 
General Monroe for the position of Adjutant General. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

MS. PAPALEWIS: Good morning, Chairman and 
Members. My name Rosemary Papalewis, and I'm the former 
Assistant Vice Chancellor for the California State University 
under Chancellor Barry Munitz, and I'm currently a vice 
president at Sylvan Learning Systems. 

I have known General Monroe for three years, both 
professionally and personally. And I'm here to support his 
nomination. 

His passion, his very aggressive pursuit of 
California youth programs through the California National Guard 
is going to take what has been very successful programs and grow 
them and make them stronger. 

I fully support and commend his appointment 
today. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

COUNCILWOMAN PANNELL: Good morning. I'm 
Sacramento City Council Member Bonnie Pannell, and it's with 



15 

great pleasure that I support the appointment of Major General 
Monroe as the Adjutant General and Director of the California 
National Guard. 

Working with the California National Guard under 
the leadership of General Monroe/ we have effected positive 
change for our youth by upgrading their learning environment at 
Parkway Elementary School. 

So, Mr. Baca, you have to get in line because he 
has to adopt some more elementary schools in south Sacramento. 

So we, the City of Sacramento -- 

SENATOR BACA: But the growth is in the Inland 
Empire . 

COUNCILWOMAN PANNELL: We the City of Sacramento 
look forward to the appointment of Major General Monroe to be 
Adjutant General and Director. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you, Councilwoman. 

GEN. WARE: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 
I'm General Ezell Ware. I'm the Assistant Adjutant General for 
the state of California. 

I've known General Monroe for some 25 years, 
about 20 years as A Member of the California National Guard, and 
of course, he was in the California National Guard prior to my 
coming in. 

I am a former Marine and also a combat veteran 
with the 101st Airborne Division, Mr. Baca. 

In my entire military career, which covers about 
35, 36 years, I know of no one that is more credible than 



16 

General Monroe, and one that will take us firmly into the new 
millenium. 

General Monroe and I have talked about this day 
since 1985, when we were both majors, sitting in the tents down 
at Camp Roberts. And we had great ideas on how we would try to 
make some changes to improve the overall atmosphere of the 
California National guard for both men and women, should we get 
into a position like this. 

I wholeheartedly and absolutely support the 
confirmation of General Paul Monroe. We could get no better 
officer for this job. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

At this time is there anyone in the audience 
wishing to oppose the nomination or raise concerns? Seeing 
none, we already have a motion. Please call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 

SENATOR LEWIS: We'll place that matter on call. 

General, Congratulations. 

GEN. MONROE: Thank you, Senator. 



17 

SENATOR PERATA: I'd just like to acknowledge 
that the General's son, Paul, is also here with us today. 

Thank you very much. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you for doing that. 
[Thereafter, CHAIRMAN BURTON 
added his Aye vote, making the 
final vote 5-0 for confirmation.] 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Solis. 

SENATOR SOLIS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and 
Members. 

It is my honor today to introduce to you Dennis 
Hayashi, before you today for confirmation for Director of the 
California Department of Fair Employment and Housing. 

He has very distinguished career. As you know, 
he attended Occidental College, graduating cum laud in 1974, and 
earned a law degree at Hastings College of Law. 

He is the first, one of the few, highest ranking 
Asian Pacific Americans nominated by the Governor of California 
to lead the largest state civil rights agency in the country. 
And he's charged with protecting and safeguarding the civil 
rights all Calif ornians . 

Mr. Hayashi is nationally recognized in the field 
of civil rights. From 1993 to 1997, he worked as Director of 
the Office for Civil Rights in the U.S. Department of Health and 
Human Services. In addition, he has a long record working on 
civil rights and legal services organizations. 

Mr. Hayashi ' s career has been devoted to fighting 
for civil rights and equality. He's worked against hate crimes, 



18 

anti-Asian violence, and co-founded the National Network Against 
Anti-Asian Violence. 

His appointment is especially critical in a 
period when the state is beset with an epidemic of hate violence 
and a growing racial intolerance. 

His appointment is especially critical for the 
state. I urge your full support for his appointment as Director 
of the California Department of Fair Employment and Housing. 

He has also served as National Director of the 
Japanese American Citizens League, the Board of Directors of the 
San Francisco CORO Foundation, Board of Directors of San 
Francisco Legal Assistance Foundation, Board of Directors for 
the Coalition of Asian Pacific Americans, and member of the 
California Commission on the Prevention of Hate Violence. 

He has written numerous articles in the 
Washington Post, the San Francisco Chronicle, and the Yale Law 



School Journal. 

He's had a very prestigious career, and it's my 
honor to present him today in hopes that you will confirm his 
appointment . 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much, Senator. 

Good morning, Mr. Hayashi . 

MR. HAYASHI: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Senator Solis, for those kinds 
remarks . 

Mr. Chair, Members of the Committee, thank you 
very much for the opportunity to briefly present to you my goals 
and objectives for the Department of Fair Employment and 



19 

Housing. 

As you know, the Department's mission is to 
protect Californians from unlawful discrimination in employment/ 
housing, and public accommodations, and from perpetration of 
acts of hate violence. 

1999 marks the 40th anniversary of the creation 
of the Department. State civil rights laws and policy have 
evolved greatly during this time, providing some of the most 
extensive anti-discrimination protections in the country. Yet, 
as recent events have indicated, the problem of racial and 
ethnic tension, including hate violence, continues to plague us. 

The total number of complaints of discrimination 
received by the Department has increased by 20 percent in the 
last five years, particularly in the areas of disability and 
sexual harassment. 

In light of these circumstances, it is more 
important than ever that the Department send out a clear and 
unequivocal message: We will not tolerate acts of 
discrimination, hate, or unlawful harassment. We will be 
relentless in filing civil and administrative actions to stop 
any and all such activity. We will ensure that equal 
opportunity and equal rights are not 40-year-old slogans but 
present day guiding principles. 

To support these objectives, the Department needs 
to strengthen its enforcement by focusing on the twin goals of, 
one, delivering more efficient service, and two, raising 
awareness of California's anti-discrimination laws. 

Specifically, processing and continuing to 



20 

resolve formal complaints in a timely manner is fundamental to 
carrying out our mission, while training, education, and 
technical assistance for employers, housing providers, and 
public entities heightens knowledge of legal obligations and 
prevents discrimination. 

Receiving and resolving complaints is our highest 
priority. We are aware that there remains a great deal of truth 
to the saying, "Justice delayed is justice denied," and that 
meaningful enforcement of anti-discrimination laws is dependent 
on how expeditiously the Department conducts its investigations 
and makes determinations. 

Data suggests that the Department's improving its 
efficiency, but we can do more. As I've indicated in my letter 
to Chairman Burton, I intend to establish a mediation process 
that would facilitate the settlement of many complaints prior to 
the Department undertaking a formal investigation. Mediation 
would streamline the process, and more importantly, save time 
and money. Mediation has proven to be an effective tool in 
conciliating differences when utilized by government agencies 
like the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and would 
provide us with a valuable mechanism to bring complainants and 
respondents together to quickly resolve differences. 

Equally important as making the process more 
efficient is making the process more accessible. Right now, 
there are parts of our state where it is just too difficult for 
residents to file complaints with our office. As such, I 
believe the Department must bring its services to the public. 

I have asked the Department to develop by this 



21 

fall a pilot program to conduct intakes in some of the state's 
distant locations, which would include those areas 100 or more 
miles from one of our offices. 

While filing complaints is essential to 
fulfilling our mission, the Department must be equally focused 
on preventing discrimination. Given the complexity of our laws, 
employers or housing providers can often be confused about or 
simply unaware of what their legal responsibilities are. As 
such, we must strengthen our education and training efforts. As 
a first step toward doing so, the Department last week launched 
its Internet Web site, which contains extensive information 
about DFEH's functions and the laws it enforces. 

The Web site will also soon make it possible for 
the public to download required posters and educational 
documents for their use. 

I also intend to develop an external affairs unit 
whose function will be to increase communication with businesses 
and housing providers, and I will commit more resources to 
making training and technical assistance available to a wider 
range of stakeholders. 

Finally, the Department must be responsive to 
addressing new and pressing issues. I have asked the Department 
to put renewed emphasis on our efforts to enforce the Ralph 
Act's protections against hate violence, to explore expanding 
enforcement efforts to curtail and prevent sexual harassment, 
and to develop ways to heighten awareness about the provisions 
of the Family Rights Act. 

Confidence in Department's work depends in part 



22 

on how comprehensive its enforcement activity is. 

I hope I have been able to provide you with a 
general picture of my objectives as Director of the Department 
of Fair Employment and Housing. 

I want to thank the Governor giving me the 
tremendous honor of heading this state's civil rights agency. I 
look forward to working with the Legislature to ensure that 
equal opportunitiy and freedom from discrimination remains one 
of this state's highest priorities. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

There are a number of communities up and down the 
state, usually very wealthy communities/ that try to enact 
no-growth policies. 

Do you believe that these kind of policies are 
discriminatory against low-income people wishing, to obtain 
living accommodations there? 

MR. HAYASHI: With respect to whether or not a 
particular situation would be discrimination under one of our 
laws, I think, of course, depends very much on the facts of a 
given situation. 

In general, however, I believe that the question 
of whether any of this activity rises, or a complaint about such 
activity would rise to the level of discrimination is something 
that would we would have to analyze. And should such a 
situation arise, we would do our best to make it known publicly 
and facilitate some type of assistance to various communities 
about compliance with the law. 



23 

SENATOR LEWIS: Do you think that an English-only 
requirement at a work place could be considered unlawful, or 
should be considered unlawful discrimination? 

MR. HAYASHI: Again, that depends on the 
circumstances of a given case, because there are often a number 
of factual nuances to specific cases which we'd have to analyze. 

Should there be any policy within the work place 
which violates, for example, restrictions against discrimination 
on the basis of national origin or race, we would take that into 
consideration. 

But I would not want to make a general statement 
that an employer's policy in this particular area may or not be 
discriminatory. 

SENATOR LEWIS: So, in and of itself, and 
English-only work place policy would not constitute 
discrimination in your mind? 

MR. HAYASHI: Yeah, again, it would have to 
depend on exactly what the policy said and how it was applied to 
the employees. 

SENATOR LEWIS: From your experience, what 
percentage of sexual harassment lawsuits turn out to be 
unfounded? 

MR. HAYASHI: Well, we found that a number of the 
cases that have come before us actually have been conciliated. 
In other words, somebody has brought an accusation, and parties 
have been brought together, and an amicable resolution of the 
case has been arrived. 

I think that, by and large, the majority of our 



24 

complaints fall into that category. So, there is, therefore, no 
need for formal findings per se of whether or not an employer 
has discriminated against an individual complainant. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Well, with the complexity of our 
sexual harassment laws these days, I mean, sometimes it could be 
a generational thing, where someone says something that he 
doesn't -- 

MR. HAYASHI: Right. 

SENATOR LEWIS: — to be harassing, and someone 
takes it the other way, and it's kind of in the eye of the be 
holder. So, you have those close call situations. 

But then, every once in a while, you have 
situations where someone just files a sexual harassment lawsuit 
because they're unhappy at the work place, and it's a totally 
bogus claim. 

Do you have any rough guess of what percentage 
that might constitute? 

MR. HAYASHI: With respect to the situation that 
you've described, I don't have really a rough estimate as to how 
many complaints may fall into that category, but I'm more than 
happy to review the situation with my staff and get back with 
you with more information on that. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Okay. 

Questions from Members of the Committee? Senator 
Hughes . 

SENATOR HUGHES: Good morning. 

Could you tell me, are you really surprised by 
the fact that the Department received 20 times more complaints 



25 

about employment discrimination as compared with housing 
discrimination? 

MR. HAYASHI : Well, in some respects I am a bit 
surprised by that. But in other respects, I am not. 

I believe that in the past — well, there are 
several reasons for that. One is that in the past, I think, the 
Department has emphasized its services in the area of employment 
discrimination . 

And secondly, quite frankly, most people who come 
to the Department are concerned about the employment situation 
versus housing discrimination or public accommodations. 

One of things I think, though, that our 
Department should be doing more of is informing the general 
public about what their rights are in the area of housing and 
public accommodations. 

My feeling is that if we expand our efforts in 
terms of broadening education, that people who realize they may 
have some rights in these areas will come forward and file with 
our office. 

SENATOR HUGHES: How do you plan on doing that? 
How do you plan on getting out the message to people that they 
have rights, and you are there to protect their rights? 

MR. HAYASHI: First of all, as I stated in my 
remarks, I think it's very important for the Department to have 
its own public affairs education unit that will be responsible 
for doing that. 

But I think the establishment of our Web site, 
for one thing, is a very, very good way of getting the ball 



26 

rolling with respect to dispensing more information about what 
it is we actually enforce and what rights people have. 

Secondly, I intend to work with both housing 
providers and fair housing councils around the state to get the 
word out that we want to meet with people, we want to hold 
clinics, if that is necessary, we want to talk to housing 
provider councils as much as possible to see what their concerns 
are. And I think by doing these things we'll be able to get 
the word out. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Then do you think the Department 
staff going to be adequate to handle the workload that you're 
going to generate after you advertise that we're here to help? 
And what plans do you have in the future coming budget year to 
make sure that you have the work force that's needed? 

MR. HAYASHI: I have a very capable staff, and 
they are fully capable of handling the complaints that come to 
our office. 

But I will say, I think that if we see continued 
spikes in the number of cases that we receive, it would help 
greatly for us to augment our staff with more counselors and 
technical assistance individuals who can help people understand 
what their rights are. And so, we're talking now and discussing 
ways that we can, perhaps, look to the future and make sure that 
we are able to cover all the complaints that come to our office. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What action did you personally 
take after the burning of the synagogue? 

MR. HAYASHI: I had my district staff immediately 
respond to the situation. Within hours, they had met with 



27 

various leaders of the synagogues, had viewed the sites, have 
continued to meet with leaders of the synagogues, and we have 
told them that, at some point, should it warrant, we would be 
more than happy to represent their interests with respect to 
enforcement of any rights they may have under the Ralph Act. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Just a couple of questions. 

I do appreciate some of the excellent questions 
that Senator Teresa Hughes asked, because I was going to ask 
those, but those have been asked, so thank you for asking them. 

SENATOR LEWIS: What about my excellent 
questions? 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR BACA: Yours were leading questions. 

Would you support legislation, because as we look 
at complaints, and we look at travel time, would you support 
legislation using the Internet for filing complaints in the 
future as well? 

MR. HAYASHI: We have had discussions about how 
the Internet can be useful in terms of supplementing our intake 
process. We've had only preliminary discussions, but I think 
that we're open to any suggestions as to how we can use our Net 
site to, perhaps, do more in the area of processing intakes. 

SENATOR BACA: One final question I have, Dennis, 
how do you feel with the statute of limitation in terms of the 
complaints that have been filed and have expired during that 
time? Because that's the complaint I get, is that the 



28 

Department is not handling the complaints within that timeframe 
of a year based on that statute. 

What is process for the individuals in terms of 
an appeal process if, in fact, passes the statute of 
limitations? 

MR. HAYASHI: As you know, a couple of years ago, 
there was an audit conducted of the Department which raised this 
issue of expiring cases under our statutory authority. And one 
thing that the Department did do was respond very aggressively 
to addressing this problem. 

So, I can say that since that audit report was 
conducted in 1997, our — the number of cases that have expired 
has shrunken dramatically. It used to be that we would have 
cases numbering perhaps 2,000 — 1,000 or 2,000 a year which 
expired. We're now down for the last fiscal year to only 47 
cases that expired. So, we have made dramatic improvement in 
that area. 

With respect to what the rights of the individual 
complainants are should they find themselves in that situation, 
we have in the past year set up special units of what we call 
case expediters to ensure that there are no cases that are going 
to expire before meeting our statutory obligation. 

But secondly, should one or two cases fall 
through the cracks, they are there to ensure that the 
individual ' s rights are preserved by either formally continuing 
the investigation, and therefore triggering more time under the 
statute, or referring it to the Equal Employment Opportunity 
Commission, which would give an additional amount of time for an 



29 

individual to press their complaint. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you very much. 

I hope you continue to work in that area, because 
that's a common complaint that I do get from individuals in my 
areas that have filed a complaint that has reached the statute, 
and has expired. Then they end up dropping the case because 
they didn't eve remedy or look into it. So, I'm glad that the 
audit report has done that, that you do that, continue to work 
in that area because that ' s a common concern for many 
individuals who file complaints. 

And those individuals, that is their livelihood; 
that's the only thing that they have, because they can't afford 
to go out and hire an attorney because, you know, that's the 
other option that they have, is to withdraw either a complaint 
from you or EEOC, and then get an attorney. A lot of them just 
don't have the funds to do that. So, they're looking, you know, 
towards your Department for fair equity judgment. 

MR. HAYASHI: The point is well taken. 

SENATOR BACA: Move the confirmation. 

SENATOR LEWIS: We have a motion. 

One final question. A devout Christian couple 
owns a duplex. They decide to rent out the other unit. A gay 
couple applies to live there. They turn them down simply 
because it's against their religious beliefs. 

Is that a current violation of law? 

MR. HAYASHI: I hate to comment on any 
hypothetical fact situation, because again, we would have to 
have a case and examine the facts. 



30 

There are some nuances with respect to religious 
exemptions that the legal staff has been analyzing. We've been 
discussing this, actually/ for the last couple of weeks. 

We intend, actually, at some point to perhaps, if 
it's worthwhile, to conduct trainings to various housing 
providers and employment groups on these issues, and would 
welcome that opportunity. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I think my question's a fairly 
simple one. 

What is your opinion, if a couple decides not to 
rent to someone just because they're gay, or I'll throw in maybe 
they're unmarried. What is your personal opinion on either of 
those scenarios? 

MR. HAYASHI: Well, there's a couple of things. 
It depends on the size of the unit. There are certain issues 
with respect to whether or not there may be other reasons given 
in terms the refusal to rent. 

Again, it's not an issue, I think, that can be 
addressed in a hypothetical situation. It really is very fact 
intensive . 

SENATOR LEWIS: Why does it depend on the size of 
the unit? 

MR. HAYASHI: Because there are certain 
exemptions with respect to the number of units, and whether or 
not there are family members who are part of the individual 
units . 

So, all those issues, I think, are things that 
need to be taken into consideration. 



31 

SENATOR LEWIS: So, your answer is, it depends. 

MR. HAYASHI: That's right. 

SENATOR LEWIS: So, there are times when you 
would say that a Christian couple that chooses not to rent to 
someone on the basis of their being single or gay, in some cases 
would be considered, and should be prosecuted, for being 
unlawful discrimination? 

MR. HAYASHI: Well, again, it really does depend 
on what the individual facts of the situation are. 

Many times, there are various factors which are 
part of these situations which don't lend itself to a clear 
black-and-white answer on them. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: That's the age we're in, Senator 
Lewis, that it is everything is gray, and there's nothing black 
and white, and there's nothing right or wrong. 

SENATOR LEWIS: All right. We have a motion. 

Anyone in the audience wishing to testify in 
favor of the nominee at this time? 

MR. HOLOBER: Good morning. My name is Richard 
Holober. I'm with the California Labor Federation. 

We are here in strong support of Dennis Hayashi's 
nomination. We've worked with Mr. Hayashi on various issues 
over a number of years relating to work place, justice, and 
discrimination. We think he will continue to be a tremendous 
leader in that area, and we think this is a terrific 
appointment . 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Next. 



32 

MS. GUILLEN: Good morning. Elizabeth Guillen 
on behalf of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational 
Fund. 

On behalf of MALDEF, MALDEF strongly supports the 
confirmation of Mr. Hayashi. We believe his career is marked by 
incredibly high commitment to civil rights and fairness. We 
think he is a great candidate for the position. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: More qualified than Senator 
Bergeson, I presume? 

MS. GUILLEN: We believe so, yes. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

MS. GUILLEN: Thank you for the question. 

SENATOR LEWIS: You're welcome. 

Next. 

Anyone in opposition or wishing to raise concerns 



at this time? 



roll. 



All right, we have a motion. Please call the 



SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 
Senator Lewis. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Two to zero. 

SENATOR LEWIS: The current roll is two to zero. 
We'll place that matter on call. 



33 

[Thereafter, CHAIRMAN BURTON 
added his Aye vote, making the 
final vote 3-0 for confirmation.] 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Sher, you're here to 
introduce someone? 

SENATOR SHER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and 
Members of the Committee. It's my privilege and pleasure this 
morning to introduce to you and to express my strong support for 
the appointment of Mr. Art Baggett to the attorney position on 
the State Water Resources Control Board. 

Your Committee material provide you with his 
basic biographical information, but just briefly, Mr. Baggett is 
a lawyer by training. He holds a Master's Degree in 
Environmental Studies. He has served as a faculty member in 
various capacities. 

He has also served two terms as Mariposa County 
Supervisor, during which time I came to know him quite well and 
to work with him on legislation effecting the County's 
interests. 

I can assure you without any hesitation that Art 
will be an outstanding member of the State Water Board. He's 
intelligent, thoughtful, consensus oriented, and a committed 
public servant. He has already mastered the intricacies of the 
Porter-Cologne Water Quality Control Act, and has visited me in 
my office on several occasions to discuss important water 
issues . 

As you know, the State Water Board is one of the 
most important institutions in the California Environmental 



34 

Protection Agency. Its mission is to protect the surface waters 
and ground waters of the state. 

It's also an agency that needs some review at 
this point in history and a renewal of its commitment to water 
quality protection. 

I'm confident on the basis of my own personal 
experience that Mr. Baggett will participate in that review in a 
constructive way. 

I would ask for your Aye vote on this very 
qualified appointment. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you, Senator Sher. 

Mr. Baggett, good morning, welcome. 

MR. BAGGETT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members 
of the Committee. 

I'm Arthur Baggett, Junior, nominee for the 
attorney position on the State Water Resources Control Board. 

I'd like to recognize that my wife of 23 years, 
Phyllis Webber, is in the audience. She is beginning her 22nd 
year as a school teacher in our hometown of El Portal. My son, 
Fritz, is also present, a June graduate of Yosemite Park High 
School, an apprentice climbing and mountaineering guide. And my 
daughter, Alison, who's a sophomore In Mariposa County High. 
They're all in the audience today. 

It's indeed a privilege and an honor to be before 
you today. I'm strongly committed to protecting the water 
resources of the State of California for our citizens and for 
our future generations. 

I feel I have a strong background in working with 



35 

diverse interests to protect our environment while maintaining a 
viable and healthy economy. 

My highest priority as a Board member is for 
fair, effective, and consistent enforcement of the California 
water quality regulations. I think as Senator Sher mentioned, 
I'm Chairing a task force, pursuant to your directive in the 
Budget Act, to evaluate enforcement by the nine regional boards 
and the state Board offices. 

Secondly, I have a strong commitment to 
integrating actions across agency lines. To this end, I am 
acting as a liaison with the Air Resources Board, Integrated 
Waste Management Board, Fish and Game Commission, and Board of 
Forestry on behalf of the State Water Board. 

I think lastly, I think, as you're all aware, 
there's a major shift to nonpoint source pollutants. And that's 
created a strong reliance on water shed management strategies. 
I've been working closely with Secretary Nichols and the 
Resource Agency to facilitate a stronger, on the ground 
relationship between Resources agencies and our — establishing 
our respective roles in protecting water bodies and rivers of 
the state from impairment. 

Again, thank you for the opportunity to come 
before you today. I look forward to working with you and your 
staff. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you, Mr. Baggett. 

Can you give us a quick update on the Board's 
roll on what's happening in the MTBE problem? 

MR. BAGGETT: We currently, our staff -- we have 



36 

a group of staff members from our regional boards working with 
our state staff to develop a report back for the Governor's 
directive, Executive Order. That will probably be back to our 
Board for review by early December, and we'll have a report 
shortly thereafter. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Okay. 

Questions? Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I'm impressed, an attorney self-employed, 
architect, designer, builder and developer, contractor. 

SENATOR LEWIS: He obviously can't hold a job. 
[Laughter.] 

MR. BAGGETT: About every eight years. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: And then Adjunct Professor in 
chemistry? I was going to say the same thing, you know. You 
couldn't find out what you wanted to do. 

MR. BAGGETT: Right. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: You know, there has been a 
significant problem, at least an apparent problem, with the 
underground fuel tanks, some 60,000 of them 30,000 of them have 
been corrected. And then there was recently a report that 
indicated, well, maybe it's not as bad as it seems. 

But there's an awful lot of small gas stations 
that went out of business, or it's cost them hundreds of 
thousands of dollars to change those tanks, and some of them 
haven't done it yet, and they may be still out of business. 

Is there anything that you or the Board are 
contemplating in this area? 



37 

MR. BAGGETT: Certainly, I come a very rural 
area. That's one reason for diversity. When you live in a 
rural area, to survive there, you end up changing every eight or 
so years. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: That's why you changed jobs. 

MR. BAGGETT: Yes. It's something that I have a 
lot of hands-on experience. Coming from Mariposa County, when 
one station does go out — I know there's a lot of funds 
available through the Abatement and Clean-up Account, working 
with some of the rural areas. 

Our staff, I know, has been -- has worked, has 
really gone out of their way to try to work with the rural 
areas. And I've asked them — well, they know my commitment and 
my background; I've been involved in those. 

But the bottom line is, we do have to get leaky 
tanks out of the ground. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: But you think that the leaky 
tanks are as big a problem as maybe we initially thought from a 
water contamination standpoint? 

MR. BAGGETT: Yeah, MTBE is a problem. We know 
that. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: But would there be MTBE in some 
of these tanks? 

MR. BAGGETT: There are a lot of them, especially 
if you look at certain areas. 

I've been down to Southern California a number of 
times. You look at the L.A, area, and it's pretty intensely 
magnified. 



38 

SENATOR KNIGHT: We know about L.A. area. 

MR. BAGGETT: Lake Tahoe, it's. been a major 
problem. It's one that we routinely get complaints from 
actually the water districts up there, and have been working 
with, trying to clean up, trying to get the money there as fast 
as we can to get it into the cleanups. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Are there still funds available 
for the small -- 

MR. BAGGETT: Yes. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: -- stations to utilize? 

I had heard that there are not sufficient funds 
to cover the 30-some thousand. 

MR. BAGGETT: There are funds in the account. I'd 
have to go back and check to see exactly the balance, but I know 
there are funds available, and on a priority basis, pending — 
there's a lot of oversight required from our staff, too, to make 
sure that the costs are real, and oversight of the contractors 
and so on. 

But there are funds available. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you very much. 

Arthur, in reference to the last question that 
was asked, there's currently a bill, SB 482, that actually 
changes the sunset date to require additional funding for 
underground tanks in that area. I'm currently carrying that 
legislation. 

It's in the Assembly side at this point, Pete. 
So, in reference to identifying that problem, there is 



39 

legislation currently. 

That goes along with what you said, too, as well, 
Art. 

One question that I have, it deals with water 
supply, growing California population. Over the next 25 years, 
California's population is expected to grow to about 50 million 
people. We now have about 34 million people. 

Do you have any ideas on how California will be 
able to provide sufficient water for an additional 16 million 
people in California? Any thoughts or ideas? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Icebergs. 

MR. BAGGETT: I think, certainly, with the 
proposed bond act, there's continued funds in there for water 
reuse and recycling, and recharging groundwater, salt water 
intrusion. I think that's clearly an area that we're just on 
the cutting edge of expanding on. 

I know some of the districts — in the last few 
months, I've tried to travel around the state as much as I can, 
and have noticed an increase in Los Angeles alone with the reuse 
of recycled water and hyparian plants. They're doing quite a 
bit with that, just in the beginning. I think you'll see that 
expand. 

I think, obviously, water conservation, upgrade 
of their irrigation canals. That whole arena is just, we're 
just now funding that. And some more creative uses of using 
existing storage in terms of timing of flows and so on, I think, 
will also help with that problem quite a bit. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 



time? 



40 
SENATOR LEWIS: Any additional questions at this 

SENATOR BACA: Move the confirmation. 
SENATOR LEWIS: We have a motion on the 



confirmation. 



Keeping in mind that/ once again, there's no 
controversy associated with this nominee, but we will call for 
anyone wishing, feeling compelled to testify in favor at this 
point in time. 

You feel compelled, Mr. Lehman; come forward. 

MR. LEHMAN: I'll be very brief. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members of the 
Committee. I'm honored to speak in Art's behalf this morning, 
having known him for many years. 

Richard Lehman, for the record. 

And, you know, the Water Board is beset with a 
number of very serious controversies that are going have a deep 
impact on the future of this state. I'll just cite one example 
of Art's ability to deal with those kind of things. 

We had a very contentious issue on the Merced 
River between the County of Merced, the County of Mariposa, the 
farmers and ranchers, the environmentalists, as to what the fate 
of that river, which hangs above you, would be. It's the kind 
of thing when you're a Member of Congress, as I was at the time, 
you really don't like to deal with, because everybody is 
fighting everyone else, and they're all constituents. 

Art took charge of that issue, became the 
architect of a compromise that everyone ended up endorsing and 



41 

supporting that both protected the River, Enabled Mariposa 
County to have a stable, long-term source of water, and 
protected Merced's rights as well. 

Art is open-minded and willing to talk to 
everybody, and has, as you can see from his background, an 
ability to work with a wide range of people. 

He enjoys the support of my successor, 
Mr. Ridonovich, as well, for this position. I think that speaks 
to his ability to solve these problem, and I certainly hope 
you'll support him today. 

SENATOR LEWIS: That you very much, Mr. Lehman. 

Next. 

MS. COLE: Kathleen Cole, Metropolitan Water 
District of Southern California, and appearing on behalf of the 
Bay-Delta Urban Coalition listen, which is an 11-member public 
agencies, north and south, in California. 

We urge your support for Mr. Baggett's 
confirmation. He has an outstanding public record, service of 
public record, as well as extensive knowledge in water supply 
and environmental issues. 

And we urge your Aye vote. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

Next. 

MR. MACOLA: Mr. Chairman and Members, I'm 
Stephen Macola. I'm here on behalf of Moulton-Niguel Water 
District. 

I also had the honor of being the Staff Director 
to the Senate Water Committee for 20 years. 



42 

The Governor's made an excellent appointment in 
Mr. Baggett, and I recommend him to you without 
gualif ication . 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you, Mr. Macola. 

Anyone at this point in time wishing to testify 
in opposition or raise concerns? 

Seeing none, we have a motion. Please call the 



roll. 



SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 



Four to zero. 



SENATOR LEWIS: That's four to zero. We'll place 
that on call for the Chairman. 

Congratulations . 
MR. BAGGETT: Thank you. 

[Thereafter, CHAIRMAN BURTON 
added his Aye vote, making the 
final vote 5-0 for confirmation.] 
SENATOR LEWIS: Next we have Judy Johnson. 
MR. DOYLE: Mr. Chairman and Members, I'm Larry 
Doyle, Chief Legislative Counsel for the State Bar of 



43 

California. 

I'm here very pleased to introduce Judy Johnson, 
who has been reappointed by the State Bar's Board of Governors 
to the post of Chief Trial Counsel to the State Bar. 

Judy has served in this position since October of 
'94, and was unanimously confirmed for that position by the 
Senate at that time. 

Prior to that, she's spent 17 years in the 
Consumer and Environmental Units of the San Francisco District 
Attorney's Office, specializing in the prosecution of major 
fraud, white-collar criminal enforcement of California's 
consumer protection and unfair competition laws. 

She has also served a three-year term as member 
of the State Bar's Board of Governors. 

During her tenure as Chief Trial Counsel, Judy 
has overseen the implementation of numerous improvements in the 
State Bar's disciplinary system. She oversaw the implementation 
Of the recommendations of the Discipline Evaluation Commission 
to the Board of Governors in 1994-95. 

She has reorganized the office of Chief Trial 
Counsel to increase teamwork and efficiency. She expanded the 
minor misconduct programs. She's introduced initiatives to 
increase sanctions and expedite prosecution of most egregious 
conduct. And in 1996, when the State Auditor audited the State 
Bar of California, even though they found problems in other 
areas of the State Bar, they did acknowledge that the discipline 
system has improved. 

Probably the greatest testimony to Judy's 



44 

abilities is the fact that during the last year-and-a-half of 
fiscal crisis for the State Bar, she has managed to maintain the 
disciplinary system and has sought the — begun the difficult 
process of rebuilding and attacking the backlog that has amassed 
during that time of fiscal crisis. 

She is the right person for the job, and I 
strongly urge your endorsement of her appointment. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you, Mr. Doyle. 

Ms. Johnson, welcome. 

MS. JOHNSON: Good morning, Mr. Chair and Members 
of the Committee. 

I'm here seeking your confirmation so that I can 
continue my work in the attorney discipline system. 

The primary challenge which I face, assuming 
confirmation, is, of course, rebuilding that system into a fair, 
equitable, efficient, consumer protection agency. 

In addition, I've outlined in my statement a 
series of initiatives to help educate Californians so that they 
might be better consumers of legal services, and some strategies 
for educating and helping lawyers meet their ethical 
obligations . 

I'd be happy to respond to any questions that you 
might have. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. 

I just have one question at this moment in time. 

What is your thought about the past use of 
mandatory Bar dues for lobbying on contentious issues like 
abortion or gay rights? 



45 

MS. JOHNSON: I think that that is an 
inappropriate use of State Bar dues money. 

However, you should understand that I operate 
only one wing of the State Bar, mainly the discipline system, 
which has no authority or say as to what legislative initiatives 
the State Bar might undertake. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. 

Any other questions? Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Just a quick question. 

Based on the backlog of disciplinary actions as a 
result of the loss of funding from the State Bar for nearly a 
year, there exists a backlog of disciplinary actions. 

How do you plan to address the situation that 
provides for public confidence and bad attorneys being 
disciplined? 

MS. JOHNSON: Senator, what we've done is, we've 
taken a really hard look at our inventory. We have divided that 
inventory up, and tried to focus our resources on those cases 
where there is clear misconduct and the conduct is egregious. 

As to more insignificant transgressions or 
violations of our rules, we've also come up with some 
alternative strategies to deal with those, such as using 
mediation strategies. 

We've also been pretty effective in educating 
lawyers who make mistakes about how not to make those mistakes 
again. Our Ethics School Program, I believe, about 3600 people 
have now attended it over the last ten years, has a remarkable 
success rate. Only about 10 percent of those lawyers who've 



46 

attended that school have ever had a second complaint filed 
against them. 

So, I think what we have to use is a mixture of 
strategies. We have to have effective prosecution, but lawyers 
are, in fact, a resource for communities, particularly the poor 
and minority and rural communities. So, we can do more to help 
them meet their ethical obligations and not offend or violate 
any State Bar rules. 

SENATOR BACA: Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Any additional questions from 
Members of the Committee? 

Is there anyone in the audience wishing to 
testify in favor of the appointee at this time? 

MR. OWENS: Good morning. My name is Howard 
Owens. I'm the Executive Director of the Consumer Federation of 
California. 

My board has asked me to testify in favor of this 
nomination because of their acquaintance with Ms. Johnson, 
primarily, admittedly, in the consumer area. 

So, I'm here to urge that you do confirm the 
nomination of Ms. Johnson. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

Anyone else? Anyone in the audience wishing to 
testify in opposition or raise concerns at this time? 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'd like to move this 
nomination. 

SENATOR LEWIS: We have a motion. Please call 



47 

the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 
Four to zero. 

SENATOR LEWIS: That vote is four to nothing, and 
we will place that matter on call. 

Congratulations . 

MS. JOHNSON: Thank you. 

[Thereupon this portion of the 

Senate Rules Committee hearing was 

terminated at approximately 10:12 A.M.] 
— 00O00 — 



48 

CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 

I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 
J)V day of X^^^ ' 1999 - 




ILYN'J. 
Shorthand Report 




383-R 

Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.50 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 

Senate Publications 

1 020 N Street, Room B-53 

Sacramento, CA 95814 

(916)327-2155 

Make checks payable to SENATE RULES COMMITTEE. 
Please include Stock Number 383-R when ordering. 



i*m 

*vo -2! 



^HEARING 

SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 




DOCUMENTS DEPT. 

OCT - h 1939 

SAN FRANCISCO 
PUBLIC LIBRARY 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 3191 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 8, 1999 
9:00 A.M. 



384-R 



SENATE RULES -COMMITTEE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 3191 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 8, 1999 
9:00 A.M. 



Reported by: 



Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 



2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

26 

27 

28 



11 



APPEARANCES 

MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 

SENATOR JOHN LEWIS, Vice Chair 

SENATOR JOE BACA 

SENATOR TERESA HUGHES 

SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

WADE TEASDALE, Consultant to SENATOR LEWIS 

FELICE TANENBAUM, Consultant to SENATOR HUGHES 

ANDY PUGNO, Consultant to SENATOR KNIGHT 

MANNY HERNANDEZ, Consultant to SENATOR BACA 

ALSO PRESENT 

WILLIAM A. NEWSOM, Member 

California Regional Quality Control Board 

Lahontan Region 

GLEN ROSSELLI, Deputy Secretary 
Health and Human Services Agency 

SENATOR DON PERATA 

BRUCE BRONSON 

PHIL ISENBERG 

CARMELA CASTELLANO, Chief Executive Officer 
California Primary Care Association 



Ill 



1 INDEX 



2 
3 
4 

5 

WILLIAM A. NEWSOM, Member 
6 California Regional Water Quality Control Board 

Lahontan Region 1 



ll 



18 
19 

20 
21 

22 
23 

24 



26 

27 
28 



Page 
Proceedings 1 

Governor ' s Appointees : 



Motion to Confirm 1 

9 Committee Action 1 

10 



GLEN ROSSELLI, Deputy Secretary 

Health and Human Services Agency 2 



Background and Experience 4 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 



12 Introduction and Support by 

SENATOR DON PERATA 2 

13 

14 

15 

16 Reason for Expediting Appointment 5 

17 Administrative Experience 6 

Questions by SENATOR BACA re: 

Children Living in Poverty 7 

Motion to Confirm 7 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Child Support Enforcement Authority 8 

Forecast of Raised Collections 9 



25 Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 



Length of Commitment 9 



IV 



1 Witnesses in Support 



8 

9 

10 

11 

12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 



BRUCE BRONSON 10 

PHIL ISENBERG 12 



2 
3 

4 

CARMELA CASTELLANO, Chief Executive Officer 

5 California Primary Care Association 13 

6 Committee Action 14 

7 



Termination of Proceedings 15 

Certificate of Reporter 16 



P-R-0-C-E-E-D r I-N-G-S 
— 00O00 — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Bill Newsom. 

MR. NEWSOM: Good morning, Senator, Members of 
the Rules Committee. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: California Regional Water 
Quality Control Board, Lahontan Region. 

Go ahead. 

MR. NEWSOM: My name is William Newsom, 
N-e-w-s-o-m. I'm a retired Justice of the California Board of 
Appeals. I reside in Dutch Flat, Placer County, California. 

I'm here this morning at the invitation of the 
Committee to discuss my qualifications and to answer any 
questions that you may have concerning them. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Besides being a friend of mine 
for 50 years, what other qualifications do you have? 

MR. NEWSOM: Well, recently I deliberately lost a 
racketball game to the Senator in preparation for this hearing. 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR HUGHES: Let's move the nomination. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any questions, Members of the 
Committee? 

SENATOR LEWIS: No questions today. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: All right, moved by Senator 
Hughes. All recorded Aye. 

Congratulations, Bill. 

MR. NEWSOM: I had about 25 pages of notes to 
discuss with you. 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: His son has a very nice 
restaurant in San Francisco, Plump Jack's. I'm sure we'll all 
be able to have a sumptuous meal. 

MR. NEWSOM: There's a back room there, yes. 

Thank you very much. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Glen Rosselli, Deputy Director, 
Health and Human Services. 

Senator Perata. 

SENATOR PERATA: Mr. Chairman, Members, it's my 
honor and privilege to be here to introduce to you and recommend 
highly a constituent of mine, Glen Rosselli, who's been 
nominated by Governor Davis to serve as the Under Secretary of 
the California Health and Welfare Agency. 

Glen brings a wealth of knowledge and experience 
in developing and implementing sound, common sense, public 
policies to this position. 

After serving with distinction as the Policy 
Director for the Congressional Joint Economic Committee, Glen 
was appointed Deputy Assistant Secretary of Policy Analysis to 
then Treasury Secretary, Robert Rubin. In that capacity, Glen 
was the Treasury Department's senior advisor on health, welfare, 
and Social Security, Medicare, and labor issues. 

While at Treasury, Glen served as the 
administration's point person on the earned income tax credit, 
the highly successful bipartisan initiative that encourages low 
income families to the work place. As senior Medicare advisor 
to Secretary Rubin, Glen proposed policies that led to the 
expansion of benefits to low income elderly and disabled 



beneficiaries . 

He also helped conceive and design the national 
insurance program, also known as CHIP, which allows working 
families to purchase affordable health insurance for their 
children. As many of you know, it was CHIP that allowed the 
creation and funding for California's only Healthy Families 
initiative. 

Upon completion of his work in Washington, Glen 
returned to the Bay Area and to the City of Oakland, where he 
served as the Senior Program Officer at the California Health 
Care Foundation, where he worked Medicare and Medicaid issues. 
He also served there as the Director of their Medi-Cal Policy 
Institute. 

Members, the challenge that lies ahead is an 
awesome one for us, to provide responsible health and welfare 
services and programs to a state with the largest, most diverse 
population in the nation. If we are to meet that challenge 
successfully, we'll need the very best people chosen to 
implement those policies adopted by this Legislature. 

Glen Rosselli brings that kind of hands-on, no 
nonsense public policy experience to the Under Secretary 
position. He will help us greatly in meeting our 
responsibilities. I highly commend him to you, Mr. Glen 
Rosselli . 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Welcome to the Committee. Do you 
have a statement? 

MR. ROSSELLI: Thank you for that kind 



introduction, Senator Perata. 

Senator Lewis and Members of the Committee, I'm 
honored to appear before you today seeking confirmation as Under 
Secretary of the Health and Human Services Agency. 

I'm joined here today by my wife, Elizabeth Katz, 
and other supporters. 

I want to thank Secretary Johnson for the 
confidence he's shown in me, and Governor Davis for the 
opportunity to serve the people of California in the 
administration . 

I come to this job believing greatly in the 
importance and value of public service. Whether here in 
California or in Washington, D.C. I've been fortunate to have 
been able to work with many talented, bright, and dedicated 
public servants. I've learned a great deal from them and hope 
to use that knowledge here on the behalf of people of 
California. 

As Under Secretary, one of my top priorities will 
be to improve the performance of the departments that comprise 
the Agency. As you know, effectively managing the Health and 
Human Services Agency, with its dozen departments, one board, 
40,000 employees, and a combined budget in excess of $50 billion 
is no small order. 

However, I believe that with sound program 
management and some innovation we can do much more with our 
resources. Taking advantage of our large market position to 
purchase some services and better utilizing currently available 
federal funds are just two areas where we can improve. 



In all of my work, I continue to be guided by my 
strong conviction that in certain instances, there's a 
constructive role the state can play in providing the basic 
services necessary to create economic opportunities for hard 
working families who, at one time or another, may have trouble 
providing for themselves. 

I intend to devote myself to ensuring that the 
California Health and Human Services Agency delivers efficient, 
appropriate services to individuals and communities in need. 

Thank you, Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you, Mr. Rosselli. 

Your appointment is on the fast track. It's a 
little bit unusual with the rapidity that we're moving on this 
one. My understanding is that we're going to have this hearing 
today, and then your appointment is to be held on the Floor 
until the beginning of next year. 

In your own words, can you kind of explain why it 
was felt necessary to expedite your appointment? 

MR. ROSSELLI: I think that's a fair question. 

I think what we're all laboring under here, eight 
months into this new administration, is the need to build our 
departments and our Agency capacities. 

Secretary Johnson worked long and hard with 
limited staffing, and I think it was our intention to try to 
move as quickly as possible to get that box checked and move on 
to working in collaboration with the department directors and 
other staff to build appropriate staffing so that we can conduct 
the affairs of the Agency. 



That's the simple reason. 

SENATOR PERATA: Senator, also, Grantland Johnson 
is here. He was six-two when he started his term. 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR PERATA: He just needs some help. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Your resume indicates that you 
have a great deal of experience in terms of policy analysis. 

What kind of administrative skills do you think 
your background lends to your new post? 

MR. ROSSELLI: That's also a good question, 
Senator. 

I think that what's not reflected directly on my 
vita is the fact that when I was brought to the Treasury 
Department by Treasury Secretary Rubin, I served for over two 
years, a significant part of my activities were to join a senior 
management team, and going from the bottom to the top, 
evaluating the performance and effectiveness of the Treasury 
Department and all of its entities. A significant portion of 
every day, every day and every week, was to think through what 
new management innovations we could put in place to better 
deliver the services which we were charged to do. 

As you know, the Treasury Department, in scope, 
with offices across the country, parallels what the tasks are 
before the Health and Human Services Agency. 

I think I'm fairly well qualified, given that 
experience. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. 

Questions from Members of the Committee? Senator 



Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Glen, thank you very much. 

In fact, I wish it was expedited a little bit 
sooner, based on the responsibility of the position as well. 

Glen, as you're quite aware, a large number of 
California children live in poverty. Today, one-quarter of all 
children and youth in California live in poverty. The 
percentage is even higher for children under six. 

Are you aware of this huge problem? What ideas 
or thoughts do you have in addressing these problems? 

MR. ROSSELLI: Well, as Senator Perata alluded 
to, when back in D.C., I had some role in helping to design and 
create the Children's Health Insurance Program. 

Here, I note that I was quite happy to see from 
the federal perspective that there was fast action in a 
bipartisan way to build a Healthy Families Program here, a 
program that has started to see some acceleration of successes 
enrolling kids. 

Kids in Healthy Families are typically above the 
poverty level, but there's a combined outreach effort underway 
with Medical and Healthy Families, $21 million, I believe, in 
this next year's budget, that aggressively go up and down this 
state in trying to find and enroll eligible kids in health 
insurance programs. 

SENATOR BACA: Now I know why we have to expedite 
it. I move the nomination. 

SENATOR LEWIS: We have a motion. Any other 
questions from Members of the Committee? Senator Knight. 



8 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, 
Members. 

Glen, do you have support taking the child 
support enforcement authority away from the district attorneys? 

MR. ROSSELLI: Senator, I think after many years 
of difficult efforts in the child support area, we are now about 
to move forward in some significant reforms. I think those 
reforms are long over due. 

I have not been directly involved myself in the 
legislative discussions that you've been involved in, focusing 
more on management issues, so I'd like to defer further comment 
until such time that I've had a chance to engage fully in this 
matter. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Do you have any specific 
recommendations to improve the system, the child support system? 

MR. ROSSELLI: As you know, Senator, right now we 
are laboring under two years' worth of federal penalties for 
having failed to get up a single statewide automated system; 
penalties totaling somewhere in the neighborhood of $95 million. 

I think, hopefully, here in the near future — I 
don't want to get out ahead of the Governor on this, because I 
don't know that he's spoken publicly on this issue — but 
hopefully in the near future, as a result of discussions between 
the administration and legislative leaders and staff, we will 
have an opportunity to move forward here and finally get up a 
single automated statewide system that'll allow us to 
effectively identify and collect child support payments that are 
due from noncustodial parents. I think that would be a great 



improvement/ and I hope that that, in fact, occurs. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: What kind of a percentage would 
you forecast raising the collection to in the future? 

MR. ROSSELLI : Again, Senator, I haven't fully 
engaged in this issue. I'll do my level best to get back to you 
with more substantive response if you so desire. 

I would add very quickly that I think we have to 
put our efforts where the money is. In some cases, we're 
attempting to collect payments that are not collectable; in 
other areas, we're not going after those payments that are there 
and due. 

Beyond that, I'd like to defer further comment. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'm extremely impressed by your 
variety of professional experiences. Only one thing concerns 
me. 

How long are you committed to be with us? 
Because I see Grantland Johnson sitting there smiling. He may 
be crying in another year if you get a better offer. I'm 
serious about that. 

Have you made any commitment to the Governor on 
how long you plan on staying, and what your goals and objectives 
are for that period of time that you plan on being here, which 
is your own business. But I think that you need to tell the 
Committee and the people who are your supporters what your level 
of commitment is. 

MR. ROSSELLI: My supporters here know that I'm 
committed, and that I come here anxious and enthusiastic, and 



10 

working hard to try to get the job done. 

I'm committed to Secretary Johnson. I think he's 
done a wonderful job. 

And this Governor, I'm encouraged by some very 
sound initial steps moving forward in this administration. 

I don't come here just in passing. I waited a 
long time to get this appointment. I plan to be here for a long 
time. 

And I hope to be able to work with you, Senator, 
and the other Senators of the Committee, on a number of things 
in the many years to come. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Well, we're very happy that 
you're passing our way. Just slow down your speed. 

MR. ROSSELLI: Thank you, Senator. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Keeping in mind that there is not 
any controversy as of this moment in time with this appointment, 
and that the Senate Floor is scheduled in eight minutes, is 
there anyone in the audience that wishes to testify in behalf of 
the nominee at this moment in time. 

Mr. Bronson. 

MR. BRONSON: Thank you. I'm admonished about 
your time. I do want to say just a word relative to what 
Senator Hughes said. Nice to see you again, and nice to see all 
of you again. 

I'm Bruce Bronson. I'm a friend of most of yours 
and former colleague. 

I just wanted to make a couple of observations. 

I think this is — keeping in mind there's no 



11 

controversy, but I just hope you realize, this is a terrific 
opportunity and not just an appointment. 

The Governor saw fit to appoint perhaps the most 
qualified person in the state to be the Secretary, a man of 
great vision and great policy experience. And what he is doing 
is systematically trying to build the equivalent of an All Star 
Team of people who are dedicated to policy and who know what 
they're doing. 

As you know, I trudged around this area for quite 
sometime in both departments and in the Agency, and I know it 
reasonably well. 

This position is so important, it's like a chief 
operating officer for an area of activity that's bigger than 
most states, most state governments, indeed, most national 
governments. And when I was among those — I see my colleague, 
Phil Isenberg, in the audience — Phil and I, and Phil Lee and 
others tried to persuade — were among the team that talked with 
Glen to not accept more lucrative positions that would probably 
be more individually recognized at the time, and tried to 
persuade him to come to state government instead because of the 
resource that he represented. 

It wasn't a hard sell, because quite frankly, 
he's an altruist at heart, I think, and he saw the opportunity 
of a new regime, a new era, a new economic time, and a new 
opportunity to really do something and work with Grantland. 

When Grantland and the Governor finally got to 
this point of having an Under Secretary, I can tell you, the 
lines were buzzing around that, this is virtually a perfect fit 



12 

between somebody's background and what the job requires. 

In addition to his intelligence and his vast 
experience, which you've already seen, he's a person of great 
attack. He can get the job done with people feeling that they 
were involved with the process and involved with the product. 

But most importantly, I believe, and I wouldn't 
be here if I didn't, that he is motivated from the heart. He 
believes in leaving the campfire a little better than how you 
found it. 

And his dedication is to improving the quality of 
living environment for the people of this state. 

I just hope you recognize, you have a great 
opportunity to build what I think is the best team that I've 
seen in 30 years of policy work here, and probably the best team 
ever. 

So, I encourage your strong consideration. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. 

Next. 

MR. ISENBERG: Senator Lewis, Members, Phil 
Isenberg. 

I'm appearing just for myself in support of 
Mr. Rosselli's appointment, but let me just tell you, he speaks 
English. He doesn't talk to you in acronyms. He doesn't speak 
to you in government talk about one of the most complicated 
programs run by any state in America, which is Medi-Cal. 

I would just commend to you the work he did in 
setting up the program here in California at the institute. It 
has managed to produce a body of reports that can be understood 



13 

and are actually helpful in this area, in contrast to so much 
that floods your desk that is impressive but not useful. 

Anybody who can bring common sense and a reasoned 
judgment to this area ought to be appointed. I would urge your 
consideration . 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

Next. 

MS. CASTELLANO: I'm Carmela Castellano, the 
Chief Executive Officer of the California Primary Care 
Association, representing community clinics and health centers 
in California. 

Our organization is concerned about issues of 
access to care for underserved communities in California. 

I've known Glen Rosselli now for about a 
year-and-a half, starting in his capacity at the Medi-Cal Policy 
Institute, and wanted to come before you today to speak very 
strongly in his favor. 

Glen has just the outstanding skills that you've 
heard of at the administrative side, and impeccable background. 
And I agree with the last presenters that we are very fortunate 
to have someone of his caliber vying for this position here 
today. 

But in particular, one thing I have really noted 
about Glen in the last year-and-a-half is his really 
compassioned interest in a whole vast range of issues, and 
particularly the issues of the underserved that I'm particularly 
catered to. 

Glen and I have just engaged in extensive 



14 

discussions where I find him to be visionary, very 
compassionate, analytical in his approach, and very objective 
and fair in how he looks at the issues. And those kinds of 
skills, combined with his excellent background, I just see it 
will be a great asset to the State of California and would very 
much look forward to working with him and the Secretary in this, 
a very important position. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

Anyone in the audience wishing to testify in 
opposition or raise concerns at this time? Seeing none, we have 
motion. Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Baca. 

SENATOR BACA: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Baca Aye. Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 
Four to zero. 

SENATOR LEWIS: We will place that matter on 



call . 



Congratulations . 

MR. ROSSELLI: Thank you, Senator. 
[Thereafter, CHAIRMAN BURTON 
added his Aye vote, making the 
final vote 5-0 for confirmation.] 



15 



[Thereupon this portion of the 
Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
terminated at approximately 9:30 A.M.] 
— 00O00 — 



16 
CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 

I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

£ IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 
day of ^^y^-At^us 1999. 




:LYN J. MIZAIO 
Shorthand Reporter 



384R 

Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.00 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 

Senate Publications 

1 020 N Street, Room B-53 

Sacramento, CA 95814 

(916)327-2155 

Make checks payable to SENATE RULES COMMITTEE. 
Please include Stock Number 384-R when ordering.